Idea for venues

[Theodric]

I've said this in another thread, but as a former role-player myself it was the obsession with 'venues' and ERP that led me to quit and take my leave. I just wanted to have my character indulge in fun adventures and take down monsters/bandits...not sit around drinking in a tavern and getting hit on.

[Saefinn]

snip

Then I'm confused who the white knights are here. It sounds like you agree with everybody else: No 18+ PF groups. This has been done to death on the forum, people are generally fine with RPers doing their thing, the main criticism to come out is over ERP, which of course is a different issue.

However, you raise the suggestion to solve a problem that as far as I've been able to tell has only been affecting ERP venues since that aforementioned GM was dealt with.

But you avoided answering my question. Everybody I ask it to does. And I ask it because I am an RPer and I run 2 non-18+ venues, one's a tavern for social RP and the other is a place for casual storytelling and performance RP based on the Azim steppes. And every time there is a doom & gloom "RPers are being targeted" thread, of course I want to know if there's a chance that I'm going to be affected or other RPers I know are going to be affected. So if people non-ERP venues are being hit, then I'll want to know about it.

But every time it seems to be ERP ones only. The cases it sounds like you're referring to are from one particular GM in question (like the person who was just looking for help), this was escalated in these forums, it caught the attention of community reps, they investigated it, released a statement that the GM had made errors, that the GM was dealt with and those who had actions taken against them wrongfully had them restored.

I feel it is important that we look at what has happened since then, as that was dealt with as far as we can tell. Everything that's come here since then has been ERP related on some level. And when directly asked, nobody will tell me otherwise.


Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea in general and for different reasons, I just don't think it's the solution to the problem you're highlighting and I question whether the problem affects venue owners who are aren't peddling ERP or other adult content.

[Resurrection_three_three]

Reading all this. People need to stop white knighting. You don't wanna go then don't. Don't mess up another person's gameplay experience (which is also against ToS) because you want to be a karen about it.

I suggested a solution that at least gets them in their own tab. Also this game is rated teen and if you think teens are all that innocent then you got a huge eye opener.

Venues hides what they are about because of white knights who take it upon themselves to report the person. The person did nothing to you but have an advertisement up in pm. That's all they did so why is anyone breaking the ToS on their end blatantly to ruin their experience.

Sorry to break it to you all but this is common place to see these now. Wasn't before covid but it is now.

What I will agree on is removing that 18+ stuff. It's pretty common knowledge what the venues are for. That doesn't give karens the right to go out of their way to report and get innocent peoples accounts get strikes or bans. You are just scum at that point doing more damage then you are good.

I would much rather see those resources go into getting blatant botting and phishing scams taken down but no..karens go after the stuff no really affecting them or their friends. Bravo karens bravo.

Section 3.3 is absolute!! Anything that violates section 3.3 must be eradicated at once! All the brave Eorzeans protecting section 3.3 by reporting violating ERP are heroes.

[LaylaTsarra]

Erp is a thing and many who attend dance/club venues are looking for partners. There are many who go there too to dance and listen to music as well. I don't have a problem with RP venues in PF although the 18+ designation can go and if that is the problem then the GM's should be clear about what is or isn't acceptable.

People will find partners at venues like these or in Limsa or Ul Dah or elsewhere.

[Vidu]

I'm not worried. Just my venue boss is smart and built up her venue alot so didn't want to jeopardize it. As for GM's able to make any determination. They really can't. I've seen countless and experienced countless times just how their judgment is. Recently been harassed last few days and reported it 3 times and nothings happened at all to the players doing it.

Other people have experienced this. Heck we have a known troll on aether who got away with calling people scammers (just long story) purposely then hold to that act to bait them into breaking tos to report them. He disappeared for a time then came back to do it. I had him figured out and talked to him about it. He kept to his thing then started gloating about never getting in trouble and I best watch it before I get another strike or ban. That legit told me right there a GM was protecting him. The last report I did I called it out and he stopped since.

I don't trust GM's to do the right thing these days. They seem to be more apt to punish the innocent then the guilty and save their friends butts at the same time. It was highly theorized that friends of that rogue gm were the ones who did the reports and he would push it through. I don't believe there was miscommunication at any level.

I also have another example of a GM abusing their position to save a fc from bans but I will leave that information for another time

I'm not sure what you mean by "they cant make any determination" - they have access to all chat-logs, so unless you think that you and your friends are just super clever in hidding any NSFW-stuff by using some kind of code, I'm pretty sure they're able to look at some text and determine wether its appropriate for a game rated 13+ (or 12+ - depending on where you live there can be more variations, I guess) or not.

As for the whole "I reported someone and nothing happend to them"-thing: You dont really have a way of being sure about that. GMs wont tell you - for the very understandable reason of protection of privacy. So unless you ask said person directly or observe them bragging about it, you have no way to know what actions were taken against them. And IF they tell you anything, you have no idea wether or not they're lying.

At the end of the day its really simply: Keep everything you do and specially say in game SFW - or, as someone put it so beautifully in a different thread: In a matter that wouldnt offend your (typical) grandmother. That goes even more if you're active in a public space, PF included. And that would still be the case even if RP got its own tab, something I dont disagree with. But if your friends venue has aspects to it that could be considered 18+ (even if you dont call them 18+), I'd rethink those aspects today rather than tomorrow.

[NealSnow]

I mean the whole things pointless honestly, trying to stop erp happening in an mmo is akin to asking for world peace, ain't gonna ever happen long as the games populated and online. Only way to truly stop it is go full scorched earth, and just shut the game down.

Sure you can crack down on the advertisements in PF... but the people running these joints will just adapt, literally nothing the devs or GM's do will stop it ever period. And honestly as far as "But won't someone think of the children!" goes with people, it should always and forevermore be the PARENTS job to monitor their children, ESRB rating be damned.

Parents should inform themselves of the possibilies of a game their child wants for those who would pay monthy for a an online game with chat functionality, not the devs, not the gm's, not the ESRB, the parents full stop. The moment a parent just shirks their duty and expects any outside force to parent for them... well they pretty much failed as a parent didn't they?

I'm so sick and tired of people always conveniently glossing over the parents in situations like this. If I had a kid, I'd monitor them from time to time in an mmo they play and if I saw them engaging willfully in erp, instead of yelling at the other person who likely was lied to of their age, or the game or the devs whatever it is! I'd punish my child first and foremost, because at 13 of age I'd let them know what it is, and if I catch em doing it they can say bye to playing it anymore.

And for anyone who says "Yeah okay but what if the person who was doing it with your child KNEW they were underage huh!?" Well then, I'd blame the PERSON not the game or devs, because I have common sense enough to know the risks of letting my child play the game, and would just report the player so GM's could look at the logs, and see that the person clearly knew and just didn't care.

And yeah I erp, but its not even the prudes who annoy me at this point, prudes gonna prude. It's the people always harping on about "oh the poor children" and never seem to discus where the parents are, why are they being neglectful, or bad parents. Cause once again its on the parents to actually parent, be involved. If you just let your child play anything without looking into it yourself and the possible risks, thats on YOU as a parent.

As an already grown adult, you should know the world is not, and never will be a hug box for children, or anyone for that matter. Stuff happens, but its on you as a parent to try and prevent as much of the preventable stuff as possible. Not let little timmy just do what he wants long as it keeps him out of your hair.

[Theodric]

I don't think the fight against ERP is pointless. Eradicating it altogether is likely to be impossible, but it'd do wonders for the game if it went back into being out of sight and out of mind. If caught engaging in it, then punishments should absolutely be handed out - and people are being caught more often lately due to how brazen some individuals and groups have become.

...and it isn't any parent's responsibility to be there 24/7 to monitor what their children are doing. To expect as much is, I'd argue, stifling and unreasonable.

Even in cases of outright neglect, though, it doesn't suddenly erode away the blame for people indirectly or directly exposing minors and vulnerable players to inappropriate content. The rules are there for a reason and everybody agreed to them when signing up for an account.

[Vidu]

I mean the whole things pointless honestly, trying to stop erp happening in an mmo is akin to asking for world peace, ain't gonna ever happen long as the games populated and online. Only way to truly stop it is go full scorched earth, and just shut the game down.

Sure you can crack down on the advertisements in PF... but the people running these joints will just adapt, literally nothing the devs or GM's do will stop it ever period. And honestly as far as "But won't someone think of the children!" goes with people, it should always and forevermore be the PARENTS job to monitor their children, ESRB rating be damned.

I dont believe anyone truely believes that they can eradicate ERP in this game completly. No one cares what happens in your private chat. No one even knows whats going on in your private chat - except you and the people you're having said chat with. As long as you keep that chat private, of course.
No one plans to "crack down on ERP", at least not in general. The thing they're cracking down - and rightfully so - are the advertisments in public spaces.

...and thats really all there is to this - not to different to the whole parser-thing, I'd say: Keep it to yourself and no one will care. Dont put it up in PF, dont use /shout (or any other chat thats public), dont put it anywhere where people who dont belong to your circle of like minded ERP-lovers can see it. Dont put it anywhere where it could hurt the reputation of SE or the game. Its really that simple.
You can ERP all you want - as long as you keep it private and between consenting adults.

[MPK]

Makes it easier for me to report illegal rp

[NealSnow]

I dont believe anyone truely believes that they can eradicate ERP in this game completly. No one cares what happens in your private chat. No one even knows whats going on in your private chat - except you and the people you're having said chat with. As long as you keep that chat private, of course.
No one plans to "crack down on ERP", at least not in general. The thing they're cracking down - and rightfully so - are the advertisments in public spaces.

...and thats really all there is to this - not to different to the whole parser-thing, I'd say: Keep it to yourself and no one will care. Dont put it up in PF, dont use /shout (or any other chat thats public), dont put it anywhere where people who dont belong to your circle of like minded ERP-lovers can see it. Dont put it anywhere where it could hurt the reputation of SE or the game. Its really that simple.
You can ERP all you want - as long as you keep it private and between consenting adults.

I've seen people who are against it at all, not saying this thread itself but I've seen it ingame and on other form posts. Those are the ones I mean by prudes like you'd think a bunch of nuns played the game how some people react to the very existence of it lol.

But yeah and even then I can't stress enough its mostly the whole blame everyone but the parent for not parenting or monitoring their child. Reminds me of whenever a parent themselves is like "Violent games are bad why can my son see this!?" when they likely bought em the game... but did not care to look what kinda game it was...