Predictions for job(s) in the next expansion?

[sdlister]

No, it is still a guess. ...

My point is that calling it just "a guess" is underselling it. Semantically, it's true, but the evidence available to support that guess is substantially greater than what's available for the case of Zenos not using the new weapon (or that the new job doesn't use a scythe, for that matter). They're not on equal footing like you describe.

... as others have pointed out earlier in the thread that was to serve as a contrast to the WoL from the trailer. It is also probably why his weapon collection consisted of ones belonging to classes the WoL has been in the trailers ...

Is this not the same thing? A series of guesses? We don't know that Zenos used katanas to serve as a contrast to trailer WoL (and if he did, that's a poor contrast). As far as I'm aware, he used a katana because he was intrigued by the combat style when he arrived at Doma and wanted to master it.

...it could very well be the case that Zeno's new weapon is a red herring and he could changing into another class the WoL has showcased in the trailers like Warrior...

If you're arguing from the angle that it could happen, then yes, it could, but it's very unlikely. Job teases and reveals have never been ambiguous and intentionally misleading.

... I am not sure a hairstyle added to the game five years ago is evidence of the new class.

I never said that. I said the timely re-inclusion of a hairstyle worn by an FF character that primarily uses a scythe and represents the grim reaper theme--after several of Yoshi-P's shirts have had scythes and reapers on them--is evidence of a new scythe job.

As for Yoshida's shirt hints, the idea that a Grim Reaper shirt hint might be hinting at class tied originating from army created by a guy named after a God of Death and fielding Reaper battle mechs...

Hades is the Greek god of the underworld, not death. I thought I included that in my original nitpick but apparently not, whoops. You're thinking of Thanatos. Regardless, what does magitek reaper armor have to do with a job that fights on foot? It's Garlean, sure, but that's it. That's the only relation. Given Yoshi-P's shirt history, it's not nearly direct enough of a hint.

And Garlemald is not wiped out. ... 5.5 made it pretty clear we are going to be fighting Garlean forces, largely under the Telophoroi banner, for most of Endwalker...

Garlemald is the equivalent of a smoking crater in the 6.0 trailer. That's what I was referring to. There's no reasonable way we can assume who or what we'll be dealing with for the majority of Endwalker from the first half of 5.5, though.


A lot of what I'm trying to say to you is that while yes, hypothetically, anything is possible and Yoshi-P could just have wanted to be incredibly vague about revealing this particular job, it's overwhelmingly more likely that he's being direct like he's always been and the job uses a scythe. I would love to be proven wrong, but I just don't see that happening.

[Karl0217]

My point is that calling it just "a guess" is underselling it....

My point is calling it more then a guess is overselling it. You got three shirt hints featuring the Grim Reaper on it, one of which doesn't even have a scythe on it, and them being coy about revealing Zenos's new weapon. No more, no less.

And from that people are guessing the shirts mean a scythe wielding class and Zenos is going to showcase this new class. What happens if the shirt hints reference a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities and no scythe? That's a very real possibility.

And I remember when the first trailer for Stormblood dropped and a lot of people jumped to the assumption that Lyse sparing with the WoL atop that statue was a fight between a Monk and Dancer, that the Girl In Red (Lyse) was a Dancer and Dancer was going to be a job added in Stormblood. Turned out it was just two Monks sparing. That alone should serve as a warning about taking something ambiguous from a trailer as a near certainty.

Job teases and reveals have never been ambiguous and intentionally misleading.

Yoshida's 007 shirt had people guessing Agent (which was a job in Tactics), Musketeer, Gunner; very few people guessed Machinist. Most people agreed it was a gun using class but that was about it. The Spiderman shirt had a lot of people guessing Blue Mage - because Peter Parker got bitten to get his powers and a Blue Mage gets attacked by monsters for its powers - and a lot of people mocked the Sam Raimi / Samurai theory. You are looking at these shirt hints with the benefit of hindsight and it is that hindsight make it seem like they have never been ambiguous but looking back on the discussion threads at the time paints a very different picture.

And Hades is both the Greek God of the Underworld and of the Dead. I think it is disingenuous to say that the name is not connected with death because the Greeks had other gods associated with death like Thanatos and Charon. Also, saying the fact the Garlean Army fields an armored vehicle called the Reaper is not evidence of a potential Garlean soldier class because we fight on foot is in the same category as saying the scythe can't be a weapon because the Botanists use it already in game.

And yes, we can reasonably assume that we will be dealing with the Garlean Army for a good chunk of Endwalker from 5.5. We know they are building Zenos's tower and will likely be garrisoning it and the area around it. We know a large chunk of the Garlean Army have joined up with the Telophoroi. We know they released dungeon artwork showing a train depot at a Garlean military base. We even had Fandaniel bragging that the Garlean Empire and Army was the cornerstone of his plan in the last cutscene: "A mighty Empire, now no more then an instrument for this star's destruction. What a pleasure it will be to put it to use!"

[sdlister]

You got three shirt hints featuring the Grim Reaper on it, one of which doesn't even have a scythe on it, and them being coy about revealing Zenos's new weapon. No more, no less.

This is already more compelling evidence than your idea has. I don't know why you're phrasing it like it's barely anything substantial, given the context and history behind those two factors.

...Turned out it was just two Monks sparing. That alone should serve as a warning about taking something ambiguous from a trailer as a near certainty.

This is really against you, isn't it? Yoshi-P never hinted at dancer and no other factors even implied it outside of Lyse's trailer outfit. The people who thought she'd be dancer wanted her to be a dancer, so they molded the situation into her plausibly being one. I don't even want a scythe job--I want what you're suggesting, but even I can tell it's not likely based on the evidence you've presented.

Yoshida's 007 shirt had people guessing ... very few people guessed Machinist. Most people agreed it was a gun using class but that was about it...

This also works against you. Your situation is like looking at that 007 shirt, ignoring the gun, and claiming it's gambler because Gold Saucer content was added recently.

And Hades is both the Greek God of the Underworld and of the Dead. I think it is disingenuous to say that the name is not connected with death because the Greeks had other gods associated with death like Thanatos and Charon.

You called him the god of death.

Also, saying the fact the Garlean Army fields an armored vehicle called the Reaper is not evidence of a potential Garlean soldier class because we fight on foot is in the same category as saying the scythe can't be a weapon because the Botanists use it already in game.

No it isn't. This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Yoshi-P wear a bunch of shirts referencing a vehicle in Garlemald that has no relation to the job itself, outside of being from the same nation? Would he not simply wear shirts that correspond to the actual job? This is again an issue of thinking Yoshi-P will be inexplicably much more vague about this reveal than he's ever been in the history of FFXIV.

And yes, we can reasonably assume that we will be dealing with the Garlean Army for a good chunk of Endwalker from 5.5....

I like how you rephrased your wording from most to "a good chunk". Those are very different terms. Maybe the Garleans last for a while, and maybe they become a non-issue after a dungeon. To say with authority that we'll be fighting Garleans for most of Endwalker is unreasonable to assume based on one half of a patch, but I'm not going to press it further because it's ultimately irrelevant to the discussion.

[Karl0217]

This is already more compelling evidence than your idea has.

A guess about what Yoshida's shirt hints at is not evidence. Nor is a guess about the nature of Zenos's new weapon evidence. Both are speculation.

And Sice's hair being re-added to the game is circumstantial evidence at best as it was a recurring reward for a seasonal event they were thinking about putting on the Mog Station and then changed their mind about it when the player base pushed back. The other item from the game used to support the scythe theory is Ranjit but he has a draconic theme instead of a death theme; so Ranjit is not exactly conclusive either especially since we can give the draconic themed Dragoon a scythe glamour.

In contrast, the Graleans have a lot death motifs and themes associated with them. They were founded by a guy named after a Greek Death God; Hades was the God of the Underworld and Ruler of the Dead so he is a death god the same way Charon the Ferryman who carried souls across the river Styx was a death god. They also have a war mech called the Reaper. They have soldiers like Gaius with skull faced helmets and Gaius still has his skull face plate clipped to his belt. They field military units like the Crania Lupi (Wolf Skulls), nicknamed the Skulls by the Ala Mighans and their commander Fordola just showed up again in the MSQ. Gaius also just unleashed a new attack called Yellow Death and was shown holding a magitek soul crystal.

And let me point something else out while we are on the subject of Garlemald; we have previously gotten three classes based out of the war torn lands Zenos has ruled over. Ninja (Doma), Samurai (Doma) and Red Mage (Ala Migho). Garlemald in Endwalker is pretty much in the same place Doma and Ala Migho were in Stormblood; war torn with Zenos's troops occupying the territory and Zenos camped out in the royal palace with a primal he intends to merge with. When we have either went to lands Zenos rules over or we have encountered a major NPC whose homeland was fighting Zenos such as Yugiri we have gotten a class based out of that land. This has already happened three times. I wouldn't discount the possibility it will happen a fourth time.

Now none of this is conclusive but there is more circumstantial stuff in the game pointing at the Garleans then there is anything scythe related.

Your situation is like looking at that 007 shirt, ignoring the gun, and claiming it's gambler because Gold Saucer content was added recently.

I don't think you thought this statement through because you were the one arguing in your last two posts that Sice's hairstyle being added to the Golden Saucer was proof the the new melee class would be a scythe wielder.

Also, "most" and "a good chunk" are not mutually contradictory terms as 70% of something would still be most of something and a good chunk of something.

[Kalaam]

Might I add that on the latest shirt, the character with a skullface is riding the creature holding the scythe. Riding a "Reaper" is something garlean officers do (Yes, this is a stretch)


Edit: someone found a high res picture of the shirt's motif. It's not someone riding the back of an angel, it's a naked angel with a skull mask seemingly leading the way (as it is looking behind itself while running) or fleeing from something.
Behind it, there is a big eye partially hidden by the angel.

[Kalaam]

Then our hints are also evidences.

[sdlister]

Then our hints are also evidences.

I never said they weren't. They're just incredibly weak evidence.

[sdlister]

A guess about what Yoshida's shirt hints at is not evidence. Nor is a guess about the nature of Zenos's new weapon evidence. Both are speculation.

A scythe on two out of three of Yoshida's shirts is evidence of the new job potentially using a scythe.

They were founded by a guy named after a Greek Death God; Hades was the God of the Underworld and Ruler of the Dead so he is a death god the same way Charon the Ferryman who carried souls across the river Styx was a death god.

Hades is not a god of death, and neither is Charon. This is nonsense. Death is a process; an event that occurs, and that is what Thanatos presides over. Hades is the god of the underworld and the dead that reside in it. Charon is a ferryman for Hades. They are related to death, but they are not gods of death.

...I wouldn't discount the possibility it will happen a fourth time.

This is an incredible stretch.

I don't think you thought this statement through because you were the one arguing in your last two posts that Sice's hairstyle being added to the Golden Saucer was proof the the new melee class would be a scythe wielder.

Yes, Sice's hairstyle--the hairstyle of a character whose weapon and role in her game lines up with what's on the shirts. I thought it through.

[Karl0217]

A scythe on two out of three of Yoshida's shirts is evidence of the new job potentially using a scythe.

You are trying to use a theory about what the shirts are hints of to prove itself. I asked you before about the very real possibility that the shirt hints reference a class with death themed armor and death themed abilities instead of a scythe and didn't get answer.

But if you really want to go down this route all three shirts feature a Grim Reaper, scythe or no scythe, and the biggest reference to the word Reaper in game is the Garlean Army's war mech. Three shirt hints is better than two ergo it is the stronger theory according to your own statement here.

Hades is not a god of death, and neither is Charon. This is nonsense.

• HAIDES (Hades) was the king of the underworld and god of the dead. He presided over funeral rites and defended the right of the dead to due burial. Haides was also the god of the hidden wealth of the earth, from the fertile soil with nourished the seed-grain, to the mined wealth of gold, silver and other metals.
  
• What did Hades rule over? Hades ruled over the God of the Dead, the Underworld, the Wealth and the Darkness.
  
• In Greek mythology, Hades is both the land of the dead and the god who rules there. Hades the god (who the Greeks also called Pluto) is the brother of Zeus and Poseidon, who rule the skies and the seas.

I can pull some more reference material if you really want to argue this point.

This is an incredible stretch.

One of your key arguments is that Zenos is going to be a new class introduced in a expansion for a second time after he was a Samurai in Stormblood. So I wouldn't be calling arguments based on patterns related to Zenos a stretch if I were you.

Yes, Sice's hairstyle--the hairstyle of a character whose weapon and role in her game lines up with what's on the shirts. I thought it through.

A hairstyle that got added to the game in 2017 for a seasonal event in the Golden Saucer. It has been in the game for 5 years now.

And according to the in-game lore in Final Fantasy Type-0 Sice represents the Power of Tenacity; a power that is tied to tanks in FFXIV, not DPS. Sice wields scythe, a weapon wielded by Dark Knights in XI, and parts of her toolkit overlaps with the toolkit of Dark Knights in other games. For example, her Dark Nebula ability is used by Dark Knights in Bravely Default. She seems more like that game's version of a Dark Knight more then anything else.

[Seraphor]

A shirt with just a Grim Reaper and no visible scythe could still be a hint towards a scythe wielding job, because the Grim Reaper is iconic for wielding a scythe.

Hades, Charon, Thanatos, Death, yada yada yada. Stop showing off guys, you're not getting anywhere with that.

They are clearly teasing Zenos' new weapon, it's obvious that it's going to be the same weapon the new job uses. They couldn't have made it more obvious.

A hairstyle isn't a hint. They've been saying they're going to add the Rainmaker back in to the game for a long time, it's purely coincidence. But Sice is a good example of a scythe wielding character in the franchise if that's where they're going with it. So if the weapon is a Scythe, then the hairstyle is a happy accident.

The "Power of Tenacity" in Type-0 has precisely nothing to do with the Tenacity stat in FFXIV. Sice may well be an interpretation of a Dark Knight in Type-0, but there are only so many weapons they could use for the new maiming job. As I mentioned on the last page. I reckon the possibilities are Scythe, Hammer or Dual Swords (that likely combine, like Judge Gabranth/Zidane). If they are to use a Scythe, they have limited options from which to draw inspiration from, Sice is at the forefront of those options. Moreover, players have been whining about DRK being a tank and not a DPS since it's introduction to the game, so maybe this would be a way of fulfilling those wishes.