Revelations from Patch 5.5 (Part 1)

[Vyrerus]

Thancred + Magitek

Did Thancred just start this patch by mis-defining "magitek"? I thought magitek was pure technology driven by ceruleum combustion engines that mimicks, replaces, and triumphs over magicks in a way that doesn't truly, accurately replicate them like aetherochemistry would? Why did Thancred just equate "magitek" and "aetherial manipulation"?

Time to be cheeky, and also time to misunderstand Japanese!

I don't think so. I'd wondered why this stood out to you. Is it a definition leftover from 1.0?

Either way, let's look at Ceruleum and Aetherochemistry and the word Magitek. From what I understand, Ceruleum is basically liquid aether. I've read its description as being the "lifeblood" of the planet in the BLU questline, and I've also read elsewhere that it's the liquid essence of crystals. So it would seem, in the context of FFXIV, Magitek engines burn ceruleum to power themselves. Thus they burn a form of aether, and in so doing, may manipulate aether, generally towards destructive ends. Though obviously there's things like the Boilmaster that heats water for tea.

Aetherochemistry... I'm not sure on? I don't think there are many examples of it in the game, and certainly none that aren't Allagan. The Allagans had the ability to manipulate aether directly, unlike the Garleans, who must do everything with their machines. I'd reckon the difference between Magitek and Aetherochemistry is that you don't necessarily need a machine for the latter.

As for Magitek itself... I am unsure if they're using the same vocabulary that was in FFVI, but in FFVI the word for Magitek in JP is Madō, which as I understand it directly translates to something like, "Sorcery" or "Spellcraft." But if you break down the kanji it's, "Demon Guidance." It is the result of the Empire in that game researching Espers(Phantom Beasts), and then draining their powers. At first the Empire wanted to imbue humans with magical powers, so they performed on Kefka, and it broke his brain, so they moved on to giving it to machines instead. Once the process was perfected, they again performed the imbuements on humans, resulting in Celes. The connotation is always that Madō is unnatural or devilish. The localized name for the Magitek Research Facility's theme is, "Devil's Lab" and I didn't understand that for a long time.

You may want to look at the Japanese version of Thancred's dialogue to know for sure, but he's describing the structure adornments, and he's paraphrasing Urianger while he's at it. With the context of the original definition for Magitek, and the idea that it's a nightmarish structure, nothing about it seems out of place to me.

[Anonymoose]

Time to be cheeky, and also time to misunderstand Japanese!

I was confused by this at first because I thought I went deeper into it here than I did, lol.

When magitek was first defined in FFXIV, it felt counter-intuitive then because it didn't correlate with FFVI in precisely this way. What Thancred says is more in line with FFVI, but also the opposite of what we were told then, which also felt weird then, but now is what we understood to be the truth, lol.

In FFXIV, because Garleans couldn't use magicks, they were using strictly ceruleum combustion engines to re-create any effects magicks might otherwise have. Garlemald called it magitek because it triumphed over, not replicated, magicks. It didn't do the magicks for them, it replaced the need for them at all by mimicking the outcomes with technology. (For example, pulling down the moon and calling it "meteor" or flamethrowers to replace firagas.)

This was one of the early distinctions between Allagan aetherochemical clockwork and Garlean magitek; it's why Ultima was "not a true magitek" and why even Nero couldn't get Allagan designs working again without gutting the aetherochemical components and replacing them with ceruleum engines.

The logical explanation is that Garlemald has just ... overcome this hurdle ... and has aetherochemistry in their magitek now. I mean, they have chimeras and the resonance machine, right?

But either way it made Thancred's comparison send me into a momentary place of, "Wait, is that right?" because for more of history than not, that was exactly the opposite of what we were told it did, lol.

[Vyrerus]

I was confused by this at first because I thought I went deeper into it here than I did, lol.

Ahh, so it's a curious sidestep(by the writers) of an old point in the lore. It's intriguing to me, as I am a big fan of anything related to Magitek.

Do you have examples of where the game has expounded on aetherochemical technology? I know there's the entire Aetherochemical Research Facility in Azys Lla, but to a laymen like me, the distinction seems superfluous. The results seem the same.

I can definitely get behind the idea that Magitek is superior to normal Magicks in a lot of ways. It provides anyone with designed magic. Though it's also true that if you don't have access to every type of magitek machine, then it's not as readily versatile. And you have to design a new machine, any time a new magic you want to copy comes up. Though you can also make your own unique homebrewed stuff. I'm quite interested in Annia and Julia's power suits. They brimmed with fiery auras the whole fight, let them do raidwides called Artificial Plasma and such.

From what I can see in game, it seems like the only distinction apparent via gameplay is that Aetherochemistry involves bionics, whereas Magitek does not... or didn't until a certain point. Everything in the ARF, once you're past Regula anyway, is some sort of test tube creature. From Precultured Biomass, to the assessment creature, Harmachis(an alt form of the god Horus, represented as a Sphinx, and a Sphinx in game as well).

I think if Garlemald overcame the Aetherochemical hurdle, it would be from the knowledge and resources they gained at Azys Lla, because while their flagship is grounded, their dropships aren't, and as we saw with Alphinaud's short sojourn aboard one, those are capable of flying on back home. We also have seen in the Werlyt quests that scientists employed on the Weapons projects were non-Garleans, capable of manipulating aether. Elezens and Hyurs and others.

I really am curious. Does the lorebook or old lore give us a definition for Aetherochemistry? Please fill me in, if possible, Mr. Moose!

[MrThinker]

snip

Yep, it is in the first Encyclopaedia Eorzea, pg 181, under the heading "Warmachina".

At the tum of the 16th century, an engineer attempted to create a smaller version of the stationary steam engine for his workshop. In so doing, he stumbled upon the idea of using ceruleum as a fuel itself, rather than to heat water. His prototype was relatively weak, but compact enough to be portable & if by fate, it then caught the eye of Legatus Solus Galvus, who insisted the military open its coffers to fund the new technology. With the army's support, a moving platfurm was built, driven by an improved ceruleum engine and mounted with artillery.

This prototype proved more destructive in tests than Galvus had ever dreamed. He christened the new type of weapon "magitek" to signify the triumph of technology over magic. Thereafter, Garlean engineers rashioned more and varied magitek weapons. With each one, the strength of the Garlean Army grew.

Starting around 1550, relics of ancient Allag were unearthed in the new territories of Garlemald. The Empire's keenest minds set about learning their intricacies, though in truth the archaic technology put the best imperial efforts to shame. The engineers never learned the fundamental principles of the Allagan devices. Nonetheless, the secrets they pried from the old machina advanced Garlean magitek by leaps and bounds. The Garleans also succeeded in reanimating a number of Allagan machina with ceruleum engines, and the Empire is rumored to be moving these to the front lines.

Please excuse any typos, I literally typed this out.

[Anonymoose]

Please fill me in, if possible, Mr. Moose!

Always keepin' me honest with them citation requests! Lol. (Give me hell, I'd rather have good citations.)

EDIT: Oh, MrThinker already got the main one. Thanks, Thinker!

Aetherochemistry was Emperor Xande's attempt to merge aetherology and science - turning something magical into something tangible.

It goes without saying that the Allagan Empire would never have survived, let alone expanded and thrived, had it not been for the might of Xande's handpicked mage cadres. Their most important contribution to the empire, however, was not solely spellweaving, but the incorporation of their magicks into existing scientific principles. Siege engines enhanced with magicks launched projectiles further and with more precision. Ensorcelled treadwheel cranes lifted blocks ten times their maximum load with a fraction of the manpower. Once the secrets of aether had been unlocked, they were applied not only to war, but to everyday societal needs, from construction to medicine, transportation to communication. The field came to be known as aetherochemistry, and upon its back would the Allagans ride into a Golden Age of prosperity.

Garlemald's stuff came later; refining the "dead organic aether" of ceruleum ore into a highly combustible, high-pollution petrol-like fuel for use in engines.

At the turn of the 16th century, an engineer attempted to create a smaller version of the stationary steam engine for his workshop. In so doing, he stumbled upon the idea of using ceruleum as a fuel itself, rather than to heat water. His prototype was relatively weak, but compact enough to be portable. As if by fate, it then caught the eye of Legatus Solus Galvus, who insisted the military open its coffers to fund the new technology. With the army's support, a moving platform was built, driven by an improved ceruleum engine and mounted with artillery. This prototype proved more destructive in tests than Galvus had ever dreamed. He christened the new type of weapon "magitek," to signify the triumph of technology over magic. Thereafter, Garlean engineers fashioned more and varied magitek weapons. With each one, the strength of the Garlean Army grew. Starting around 1550, relics of ancient Allag were unearthed in the new territories of Garlemald. The Empire's keenest minds set about learning their intricacies, though in truth the archaic technology put the best imperial efforts to shame. The engineers never learned the fundamental principles of the Allagan devices. Nonetheless, the secrets they pried from the old machina advanced Garlean magitek by leaps and bounds. The Garleans also succeeded in reanimating a number of Allagan machina with ceruleum engines, and the Empire is rumored to be moving these to the front lines.

A good example of this is being unable to levitate death claws with aetherochemistry and just installing propellers.

[MrThinker]

snip

Dang, should have just waited for Moose to get back to it, lol

[Anonymoose]

Dang, should have just waited for Moose to get back to it, lol

You beat me fair and square :P