Is anyone surprised at this point?

[Lyth]

...

If your burst window is bigger than everyone else, your combo potencies and baseline GCD values outside of burst should be smaller than everyone else. Anything else is a recipe for Heavensward or Stormblood era tank balance. You can't have it both ways.

[Kabooa]

If your burst window is bigger than everyone else, your combo potencies and baseline GCD values outside of burst should be smaller than everyone else. Anything else is a recipe for Heavensward or Stormblood era tank balance. You can't have it both ways.

A cursory look at 5.5 data shows Warrior only winning decisively on Fatebreaker. (For generous terms of 'winning' and 'decisively' because the difference is a crit swing.)

On full uptime like Doorboss, it's 3rd, on mixed uptime like Oracle it's near dead even with Gun/Paladin.

It looks like all that's needed is a 2% PPS boost for Dark Knight.

[WhyAmIHere]

It looks like all that's needed is a 2% PPS boost for Dark Knight.

And an identity. Don't forget that.

[Kabooa]

And an identity. Don't forget that.

Dead Man Walking seems pretty apt.

WAR isn't winning when you look at aDPS, which is a significant distinction when looking at tank damage balance.

Fair, but not surprising. When you can't really make good use of the crit buffs, it's to be expected.

[Bhearil]

Dead Man Walking seems pretty apt.

Having your identity on being able to kill yourself is as good as Dragoon killing themselves during jumps thanks to their old huge animation lock...

Might be fun for memes but wouldnt call that "identity"

[Argyle_Darkheart]

A cursory look at 5.5 data shows Warrior only winning decisively on Fatebreaker. (For generous terms of 'winning' and 'decisively' because the difference is a crit swing.)

WAR isn't winning when you look at aDPS, which is a significant distinction when looking at tank damage balance.

[whiskeybravo]

A cursory look at 5.5 data shows Warrior only winning decisively on Fatebreaker. (For generous terms of 'winning' and 'decisively' because the difference is a crit swing.)

On full uptime like Doorboss, it's 3rd, on mixed uptime like Oracle it's near dead even with Gun/Paladin.

It looks like all that's needed is a 2% PPS boost for Dark Knight.

And Diamond, which is a decent example of burst/downtime synergy.

If your burst window is bigger than everyone else, your combo potencies and baseline GCD values outside of burst should be smaller than everyone else. Anything else is a recipe for Heavensward or Stormblood era tank balance. You can't have it both ways.

Except for the inconvenient fact that, unlike the other tanks, WAR has practically nothing other than basic combo GCDs. If all these changes accomplished was putting WAR where it should be accordingly to the burst/downtime play then what exactly are you still complaining about? I get that you'd rather have DRK be a sustain tank so it dominates in the overly present dummy fights but it'd still be a better development choice to have 2 burst and 2 sustain while designing fights so that each has their opportunity to shine.

You repeatedly say "you can't have it both ways" yet GNB almost certainly has, why don't you harp on that more often? Is it OK to have it both ways when it's "complex"?

[Lyth]

Burst jobs shouldn't be winning decisively in any fight. We get coffee breaks. They don't.

...

If you wanted to boost WAR's dps, the place to do so is by improving their burst.

Let me explain. In order to do "burst" damage, you do less damage most of the time, and then do most of your damage all at once. There has to be some contrast. If you boost your average damage so that there's less of a difference, it stops being "burst". You end up devaluing your own supermoves because even your baseline attack potencies are inflated.

By the way, DRK is also a burst tank at present. I really don't want it to be, in part because I personally don't think that any iteration of Fell Cleave x3, Fell Cleave x6, or Fellest Cleave were engaging, challenging, or fun. I don't believe that every time you press a button, something awesome has to happen, but I understand why game designers do. Button = Awesome. Operant conditioning at its finest. I get WAR's appeal.

DRK's appeal in Heavensward wasn't that we were WAR. It was because to the broader playerbase, being skilled at DRK meant that you were good. I'd like to reclaim a bit of that feeling again with the job. We could just nominate GNB to that role, but they don't quite have the same sense of style.

I think burst tanks should exist, because as was pointed out, they're comfortable to play for the average player and are low skill, high reward. But I don't think that they should be beating out jobs that just take more effort to be skilled at.

[WhyAmIHere]

Except for the inconvenient fact that, unlike the other tanks, WAR has practically nothing other than basic combo GCDs. If all these changes accomplished was putting WAR where it should be accordingly to the burst/downtime play then what exactly are you still complaining about? I get that you'd rather have DRK be a sustain tank so it dominates in the overly present dummy fights but it'd still be a better development choice to have 2 burst and 2 sustain while designing fights so that each has their opportunity to shine.

You repeatedly say "you can't have it both ways" yet GNB almost certainly has, why don't you harp on that more often? Is it OK to have it both ways when it's "complex"?

To me it seems like you're making a lot of suppositions and projections for things that the encounter design team and the class design team should be doing, a.k.a. wishful thinking. Thinking that a 2/2 split in damage ethos is fine in theory, and that's what we've got now... kinda.

Because I'd argue that we've got nothing but burst, it's just that the bursts are varied and wild. PLD juggles FoF and Req windows, not to mention having two DoTs, one of which is a GCD. Mix of Burst and sustain there in my opinion. Same with GNB: Two DoTs, one's a GCD tied to a minute-long recast, and two windows of burst in Gnashing Fang, one with and one without No Mercy.
WAR's got Inner Chaos and Inner Release as it's burst, but that's about it. No DoT to speak of whatsoever. DRK's sustain damage has been nerfed so heavily that it's a pitiful joke: Salted Earth and this "nothing burger" of Living Shadow (as aside but to me is just a pittance "here now shut up about Scourge").

So while you have a point, that's not at all what we have now. We just have a design team that's too afraid to let any one tank have something the others don't, unless it's damage over time. We don't have a truly good split of design between Burst and Sustained Damage. We've got larger peaks and higher valleys with varying distances between peaks, and varying distances between summits and peaks.

Unless i'm entirely clueless in what is meant by "sustain" versus "burst."