Could we do without healing Potency?

[Dzian]

There is also the problem that for those healers that want to try to push the limits of their job suddenly that optimization work would become an rng farm (more than now), "oh fuck the rng aoe happened 3 times in 15s F for the parse" would be very common and frustrating (letting alone that people eating aoes and such is also another form of random damage spikes and its not something most of the healers are fan of), and that the healer problems would persist at lower levels and in normal mode which dont push healer gameplay that much (and looking how the devs design things, won't do ever) so we're left with the boring dps rotation.

From a design perpective and given the official stance on parsers, any content changes that would mess up a parse are a none issue. the devs wouldnt even consider parsers in any potential design changes.
As for the green DPS i can't see them ever going down that path because there's a pretty large crowd of people who play healers to heal. if they want to dps they'll play dps jobs... making healer dps more mandatory would effectively alienate a significant chunk of the playerbase.

[LeonKeyh]

As for the green DPS i can't see them ever going down that path because there's a pretty large crowd of people who play healers to heal. if they want to dps they'll play dps jobs... making healer dps more mandatory would effectively alienate a significant chunk of the playerbase.

Sure, except the game is designed with healers DPSing in mind and specifically tells healers that they should be DPSing whenever they aren't healing. Healers that don't DPS because "they play healers to heal" ultimately aren't playing the game the way its intended and quite frankly are being toxic if they're refusing to even try.

[Dzian]

Sure, except the game is designed with healers DPSing in mind and specifically tells healers that they should be DPSing whenever they aren't healing. Healers that don't DPS because "they play healers to heal" ultimately aren't playing the game the way its intended and quite frankly are being toxic if they're refusing to even try.

yes and no.... i think the issue there is the lack of dev clarity, the game does indeed tell you hey do some damage when ya not healing but until recently healer dps wasnt even accounted for when tuning encounters. and one of the reasons healer dps got so dumbed down is because they didnt want healers to feel pressured into doing dps.. with the general attitude of press this button if you can. if you can't do worry about it..

but either way. changing or buffing healers dps doesnt solve the problem with the actual healing and that is the overall lack of things to actually heal....

The whole role is a mess honestly.. personally i'd kill toget my dots andbane back but i'd also kill to actually have uses for my healing skills.

the real issue imo is the devs clearly have this vision of what they want healers to be... but at the same time theyre so afraid of even a hint of challenge that there vision just falls apart everysingle time they try and do something about it.

[Canadane]

yes and no.... i think the issue there is the lack of dev clarity, the game does indeed tell you hey do some damage when ya not healing but until recently healer dps wasnt even accounted for when tuning encounters. and one of the reasons healer dps got so dumbed down is because they didnt want healers to feel pressured into doing dps.. with the general attitude of press this button if you can. if you can't do worry about it..

If anything it's the opposite. With how dumbed down healing has become it's encouraged more than ever to press your dps buttons.
The general idea of "Always be casting" has never gone away. It's just less to think about for fledgling healers now that there's less buttons involved in the process.

[Ultimatecalibur]

the real issue imo is the devs clearly have this vision of what they want healers to be... but at the same time theyre so afraid of even a hint of challenge that there vision just falls apart everysingle time they try and do something about it.

I'd say the really issue is more a disconnect between job design team and fight design team. Both Tanks and Healers have more tools to do their jobs with but fights have few mechanics that require those tools to survive even at min-ilevel.

[Manuka]

but either way. changing or buffing healers dps doesnt solve the problem with the actual healing and that is the overall lack of things to actually heal....

But focusing on improving dps is probably the only way they can realistically solve this problem with how they've built this game. As much as its the norm to point out how little healing we actually do now, the healing burden really hasn't changed much at all in this games lifespan. Going back and looking at some of my old runs, my best Alex Prime had me spend 51% of my gcds on damage while my sch cohealer spent 92% of their gcds on damage. Keep in mind this is back with OG clerics and a fraction of the oGCDs we have now. If I performed better (lot of overhealing and a death by the looks of it) we would have spent roughly the same amount of time on damage versus healing as we do now, despite the lack of oGCDs.

The reason nobody complained about the lack of healing back then is because we were too busy juggling 3+ dot timers and utility CDs on top of stance dancing. Compared to now where you spend all that time pressing the same key waiting for mechanics to happen and hope you don't forget your dot because you zoned out.

[ASkellington]

Sure, except the game is designed with healers DPSing in mind and specifically tells healers that they should be DPSing whenever they aren't healing. Healers that don't DPS because "they play healers to heal" ultimately aren't playing the game the way its intended and quite frankly are being toxic if they're refusing to even try.

No, I agree with Dzian's stance. If I wanted to play a dps I'd play a dps not a healer. Does that mean I won't dps at all in a fight? absolutely not. What I want as a healer is not to fill my 90% down time doing dps with more dps buttons!!! I don't want more dps buttons. I want less down time.

I get it that SE for some Twelvesforsaken reason doesn't want to address this issue, and thus more dps buttons to press would "fix" said issue. My thing is, no. I don't want to settle. And I shouldn't have to either.

[LeonKeyh]

No, I agree with Dzian's stance. If I wanted to play a dps I'd play a dps not a healer. Does that mean I won't dps at all in a fight? absolutely not. What I want as a healer is not to fill my 90% down time doing dps with more dps buttons!!! I don't want more dps buttons. I want less down time.

I get it that SE for some Twelvesforsaken reason doesn't want to address this issue, and thus more dps buttons to press would "fix" said issue. My thing is, no. I don't want to settle. And I shouldn't have to either.

That's a fair request, but until that happens, the expectation is for healers to do DPS when they're not healing.

Calling that "down time" is subjective. Tank's job is to hold aggro on an enemy and use mitigation skills. It's not "downtime" when they have enough enmity and a mitigation buff is rolling, but there's nothing else for them to do within their role's unique responsibilities. They're expected to continue to DPS because DPS is ultimately a majority of everyone's role in a group in addition to other responsibilities depending on your role.

Healers aren't somehow exempt from that because of expectations from other games or because of personal expectations based off the name of the role. It only _seems_ like downtime because of the extremely simplistic game play surrounding that portion of the role.

[ASkellington]

That's a fair request, but until that happens, the expectation is for healers to do DPS when they're not healing.

Calling that "down time" is subjective. Tank's job is to hold aggro on an enemy and use mitigation skills. It's not "downtime" when they have enough enmity and a mitigation buff is rolling, but there's nothing else for them to do within their role's unique responsibilities. They're expected to continue to DPS because DPS is ultimately a majority of everyone's role in a group in addition to other responsibilities depending on your role.

Healers aren't somehow exempt from that because of expectations from other games or because of personal expectations based off the name of the role. It only _seems_ like downtime because of the extremely simplistic game play surrounding that portion of the role.

First off, I never said healers were exempt nor have I said healers weren't expected to do DPS.

My enjoyment of the healer role is balancing both dps and healing. What I am saying is the healing portion of fights need to be changed. Not the dps. What I am saying is that giving me an extra 2-5 dps buttons to press does not, will not, cannot fix my enjoyment of the role so no, no I don't want it. We can do 30% of our time dps. We can do 40%. Hells for all I care we can do 60%. 90% however, isn't fun at least for me and giving me more options is not how you fix it.

[Manuka]

... We can do 30% of our time dps. We can do 40%. Hells for all I care we can do 60%. 90% however, isn't fun at least for me and giving me more options is not how you fix it.

I hate to say it but the likelihood of them ever pushing that level of healing pressure outside of ultimates is almost zero. You have to keep in mind that the healers spending 90% of their time doing damage are usually skilled healers in equally skilled groups that have already memorized the mechanics and have their CDs planned out. If downtime was reduced to the point those selfsame healers are needing to spend +40% of their time on healer gcds, then your midcore and casual groups are just gonna get slapped around and bullied because downtime is designed to allow those groups to recover from mistakes in-between sets of mechanics. The more you reduce that window the more fights become a series of jump rope mechanics where everybody has to play optimally or wipe. And the dev team know this since the last time they tried to push content to that degree was back during Gordias and to a lesser extent Midas and anyone who was around then can tell you what an unmitigated disaster it was, as the raiding community more or less collapsed from it.

As it stands improving our dps kits is probably the easiest solution to downtime boredom, cause I really can't see them changing the content difficulty.