Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

[reivaxe]

Their stance hasn’t changed but a big issue here is they also claimed that trading away headgear (and later announced- hair) was going to let us go “all out” with customization of these races, which was flat out misleading. These races have less customization overall than the other races. For viera you’d think the difference would be made up in the ear and hair options but it really wasn’t. Every “new thing” we got to customize was superficially different from other races and barebones at that.

Ear shape and length? Lalafell and elezen get that too. And we got only four options, same as them. Hairstyle options with and without bangs is also nothing new to the other races. For viera, that’s pretty much it, aside from looking a little more polished than the other races. If they don’t intend to follow through by fixing the races so that we do actually get a ton of customization, then they should find a way work us into reward systems and headgear. Because the trade off currently is non-existant.

That's a poor way of looking at that.
Lala and Elezen ears are attached to the sides of their heads, they don't mess up anything as they are not gigantic or hugely different. Viera having massive ears on the top of their heads that they can customize is very much the core design problem with them being given anything. To understand that you have to look at Miqote, the only other race with ears anywhere other than the side of their faces. Kitty ears are a part of their hairstyles, they can't change them in any way. Their race's "uniqueness" came more so from the tails that the devs refuse to let be hidden in 99% of gear.

They chose to give Viera ear customization because it's literally the only unique trait they have and every design approach I've personally come up with to make hats work on them and not look poop is either to turn off the ears or have only 1 pair that can't be customized that's a part of their hair like Miqotes. As it stands now they if they want to show the ears when wearing hats they would have to make 4 versions of SOMETHING to accommodate the player's choice, and they don't do that for any character model in the game. This is what he meant by "it would be useless if you can't go all out". If the only unique thing about the race is the bunny ears it would be strange if you couldn't customize them fully.

Hrothgar are, like I've said on this forum, a case of the Monkey's Paw. They have legit a ton of CC features no other race gets but at the cost of 1 of the fundamental features we've come to expect (Hair) as well as hats.

[BunniEclair]

snip

They have already disproven the “they’d have to make 4 models” thing themselves by allowing the ears to clip through helmets and hoods. This is because the issue isn’t really the ears, which all share the same base shape and size. As seen with the new dungeon helms, they are also more than capable of and willing to make the ears disappear for helms that it would be appropriate for. If you ever look at what helmets viera can wear something they all have in common is that they are headgear that make the hair completely disappear.

This is because it’s the racially unique hair, which they did not model “hat versions” for that is the issue. So you can get away with helmets because it makes sense for the wearer to tuck away hair when donning them. A little harder to explain away why your bunny is suddenly bald when putting on a wizard hat.

Though my issue isn’t really with hats, necessarily, unless they are the big reward for an event because....well I can’t use them, so that sucks. I take more issue with them hyping up the new races to have all of this customization to make up for the lack of gear that they just didn’t come through on. I can think of several ways they could have offered additional customization to make the viera feel more robust and unique. But where they stand right now, they had a lot more customization taken away than they got in exchange for a few ear models. And the hair thing is even more frustrating- both in their failure to make time to add more unique ones and also in their refusal to make the slight adjustments necessary to allow viera to have the unlockable ones offered as rewards.

[SturmChurro]

They have already disproven the “they’d have to make 4 models” thing themselves by allowing the ears to clip through helmets and hoods. This is because the issue isn’t really the ears, which all share the same base shape and size. As seen with the new dungeon helms, they are also more than capable of and willing to make the ears disappear for helms that it would be appropriate for. If you ever look at what helmets viera can wear something they all have in common is that they are headgear that make the hair completely disappear.

This is because it’s the racially unique hair, which they did not model “hat versions” for that is the issue. So you can get away with helmets because it makes sense for the wearer to tuck away hair when donning them. A little harder to explain away why your bunny is suddenly bald when putting on a wizard hat.

Though my issue isn’t really with hats, necessarily, unless they are the big reward for an event because....well I can’t use them, so that sucks. I take more issue with them hyping up the new races to have all of this customization to make up for the lack of gear that they just didn’t come through on. I can think of several ways they could have offered additional customization to make the viera feel more robust and unique. But where they stand right now, they had a lot more customization taken away than they got in exchange for a few ear models. And the hair thing is even more frustrating- both in their failure to make time to add more unique ones and also in their refusal to make the slight adjustments necessary to allow viera to have the unlockable ones offered as rewards.

Bald, and no ears on the side of their heads. That would be super jarring to look at. Like Humpty Dumpty wearing a hat or something.

[BunniEclair]

Bald, and no ears on the side of their heads. That would be super jarring to look at. Like Humpty Dumpty wearing a hat or something.

But with legs that go for miles! ;0

[reivaxe]

They have already disproven the “they’d have to make 4 models” thing themselves by allowing the ears to clip through helmets and hoods.

Yeah, they let the ears clip through hoods and like 1 helm ... and it looks poop. It always looks poop. The race would look even more extra poop if they let Viera wear the 100s of hats in the game by taking the stance of "just let it clip".
This is a design decision by them to have visuals they're happy with and respect the racial choice of the player, never said it was a "tech issue". The only tech issue is the fact that they seem to think making hats not look like clippy poop with the ears requires too much work.

In order to make hats and helms not look like poop on the race they would have to accommodate the 4 ears or turn them off, simple as that.

This is because it’s the racially unique hair, which they did not model “hat versions” for that is the issue. So you can get away with helmets because it makes sense for the wearer to tuck away hair when donning them. A little harder to explain away why your bunny is suddenly bald when putting on a wizard hat.

They didn't make hat hair models because they never intended to give them hats because they made the race that way. That's not the cause of the "problem", that's the result of their decision ... no reason to make hat hair if you're not going to make hats work on them.

I take more issue with them hyping up the new races to have all of this customization to make up for the lack of gear that they just didn’t come through on.

I don't believe he "hyped it up" so much as tossed out a line about it that people latched onto. Hrothgar DO have a ton of CC options that no other race has at the cost of hair ... Viera's only "thing" is being humans with bunny ears so they "went all out" on the ears (even allowing for the bent ears that look ugly af) and decided to have alt versions of hair be the norm. These are new, unique things, and they came at as a result of how they made these races. Was it worth it? IMO no, they should have realized this weeby fanbase just wanted "cute bunny girls! ;D" and woulda taken Miqos with longer ears and 4 different bun tails.

But what's done is done, by releasing these races this way they've made a situation where in they can't easily change course unless they make a massive NGS shift in CC and graphics engine OR decide to just turn off the parts that give them problems. (For Viera it's the ears ... for Hrothgar it's just the mane. Hrothgar heads are not shaped in any way that stops hats from working on them and their ears get turned off for hoods, they simply seem to not want to only partly cover the mane).

[BunniEclair]

. Was it worth it? IMO no, they should have realized this weeby fanbase just wanted "cute bunny girls! ;D" and woulda taken Miqos with longer ears and 4 different bun tails..

Says the miqo.

The ears clipping through don’t look any worse than au ra horns clipping through hoods and helms. Like there’s a few extra tufts of hair and that’s it. You’re overblowing it to make your point, which is moot because they are doing it anyway, so clearly their standards are lower than you seem to think. Just not low enough to let our hair swallow a baseball cap. Yet.

But again, I don’t really care about hats all that much. I do care about hair, though. If viera really are just “humans with bunny ears” then it shouldn’t be all that hard to adjust the hair for them that everyone else gets. If it is, then they should find time to make more hair for just us. Either straight to cc or as a reward. If other people get mad, they can have the fantasia they keep throwing at viera players every time we make a peep about not getting anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[reivaxe]

Says the miqo.

Fun fact ... I don't like ANY of the races very much and only play kitty because it's the best option for my taste cause of the failings of every other choice aka the "I guess it'll do..." pick.

There is a reason I'm one of the most active Female Hrothgar supporters here. I also know for a fact that people were crying "HEY! Where's the bun tail? Why can't I be short? >" and had to be told that's not how Viera look.

The ears clipping through don’t look any worse than au ra horns clipping through hoods and helms. Like there’s a few extra tufts of hair and that’s it. You’re overblowing it to make your point, which is moot because they are doing it anyway, so clearly their standards are lower than you seem to think. Just not low enough to let our hair swallow a baseball cap. Yet.

No, I'm not "overblowing" it.
Here's the thing, YOU think it looks fine and like Drago horns ... but that's an opinion. I think it looks poop, cheap and lazy. Clearly the devs also think it looks terrible which is why they don't do it outside of hoods and like 1 helm even though people are fast to point out how "All you have to do is turn on a button to make hats show". Clearly they don't think it's acceptable which is why they don't allow hats to show ... that's literally the only conclusion you can come to after seeing how easy it seems for modders to turn hats on.

At the end of the day it's their game and if they think having giant ears clip through fedoras is a bad look welp ... you get exactly what they're doing now.

[BunniEclair]

Fun fact ... I don't like ANY of the races very much and only play kitty because it's the best option for my taste cause of the failings of every other choice aka the "I guess it'll do..." pick.

Just saying, tiny kitty waifus shouldn’t throw stones. Even so, I’m a supporter of female Hrothgar myself and do hope they make it into the game someday.

No, I'm not "overblowing" it.
Here's the thing, YOU think it looks fine and like Drago horns ... but that's an opinion. I think it looks poop, cheap and lazy. Clearly the devs also think it looks terrible which is why they don't do it outside of hoods and like 1 helm even though people are fast to point out how "All you have to do is turn on a button to make hats show". Clearly they don't think it's acceptable which is why they don't allow hats to show ... that's literally the only conclusion you can come to after seeing how easy it seems for modders to turn hats on.

At the end of the day it's their game and if they think having giant ears clip through fedoras is a bad look welp ... you get exactly what they're doing now.

I don’t really feel like talking in circles any more with you because neither of us is budging, nor have we ever seen eye to eye on this subject in any capacity. Gotta say I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody as invested in a race they have no interest in playing. At the end of the day, regardless of the reason, viera and hrothgar are getting shorted in a way other races are not and I’d like to see them do pretty much anything at this point regarding the hair situation. I do personally think they should retrofit unlockable and paid hairstyles on viera, as modders have shown it takes little effort as far as fitting is concerned to do so. It would probably be the easiest solution to appease viera players, and allow them to focus on Hroth who frankly have no real option but racial hairs at this point, due to the way they function.

[reivaxe]

Just saying, tiny kitty waifus shouldn’t throw stones.

... How am I "throwing stones" by pointing out that this fanbase for this JPN game is weeb af and many people would have been fine with a fully functional version of their "bunny waifus" had they made them rabbit versions of cat girls?
I legit remember many a thread of people convincing themselves that the pale clan "should be shorter" cause of some bs comparison going around with misleading information back in the day and many people whine to this day about the lack of bunny tails.

And that's perfectly fine, SE should have realized that above all else most people wanted to play dress up with pretty animal eared women over having a 1:1 version of Fran if it meant the race could be "normal" and I don't see a world where an alt bunny race doesn't become hella popular.

(And I actually supported Viera getting into this game since before HW (was super bummed at the Draggo reveal), actively posting here in support of getting them in. Fran was the only non-human FF character I knew at the time and I knew the race was black coded, so they would make great tall black women. The legit only reason I don't play one isn't because of the head stuff, it's because they barely animate or show emotion and I don't personally like to play such reserved characters, so they're a let-down for me. I'm not throwing shade at all, people like pretty characters, and I'm no different. My taste is far wider than most, but I'm picky af about things like animation and hair types ... so I'm highly disappointed with the options in this game for a number of reasons)

I don’t really feel like talking in circles any more with you because neither of us is budging, nor have we ever seen eye to eye on this subject in any capacity. Gotta say I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody as invested in a race they have no interest in playing.

*points above at my long history of actually supporting Veira to the point of shouting down people who wanted "beast races" because there's "no way SE would add them when that means remodeling all the headgear" ... that stance aged well.

My fascination with these races actually comes from a background in video games and animation. I like looking at the puzzle that is these messes and seeing how the devs think even if I feel 1 is a complete waste of an option because of stiff, lack luster animations.

And I have no clue how we're "talking in circles". The devs didn't go "Opps, forgot to make hat hair models ... welp, no hats!", they didn't make hat hair models because they made the race with no intention of giving them hats. If you can look at how it's technically possible and easy to have hats show up on Viera and come up with a reason other than "They think "let it clip" isn't acceptable for hats and most all helms" then feel free to say what that theory is ... cause there's really no real reason that I see other they don't think it's acceptable.