Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

[BunniEclair]

Fun fact ... I don't like ANY of the races very much and only play kitty because it's the best option for my taste cause of the failings of every other choice aka the "I guess it'll do..." pick.

Just saying, tiny kitty waifus shouldn’t throw stones. Even so, I’m a supporter of female Hrothgar myself and do hope they make it into the game someday.

No, I'm not "overblowing" it.
Here's the thing, YOU think it looks fine and like Drago horns ... but that's an opinion. I think it looks poop, cheap and lazy. Clearly the devs also think it looks terrible which is why they don't do it outside of hoods and like 1 helm even though people are fast to point out how "All you have to do is turn on a button to make hats show". Clearly they don't think it's acceptable which is why they don't allow hats to show ... that's literally the only conclusion you can come to after seeing how easy it seems for modders to turn hats on.

At the end of the day it's their game and if they think having giant ears clip through fedoras is a bad look welp ... you get exactly what they're doing now.

I don’t really feel like talking in circles any more with you because neither of us is budging, nor have we ever seen eye to eye on this subject in any capacity. Gotta say I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody as invested in a race they have no interest in playing. At the end of the day, regardless of the reason, viera and hrothgar are getting shorted in a way other races are not and I’d like to see them do pretty much anything at this point regarding the hair situation. I do personally think they should retrofit unlockable and paid hairstyles on viera, as modders have shown it takes little effort as far as fitting is concerned to do so. It would probably be the easiest solution to appease viera players, and allow them to focus on Hroth who frankly have no real option but racial hairs at this point, due to the way they function.

[reivaxe]

Just saying, tiny kitty waifus shouldn’t throw stones.

... How am I "throwing stones" by pointing out that this fanbase for this JPN game is weeb af and many people would have been fine with a fully functional version of their "bunny waifus" had they made them rabbit versions of cat girls?
I legit remember many a thread of people convincing themselves that the pale clan "should be shorter" cause of some bs comparison going around with misleading information back in the day and many people whine to this day about the lack of bunny tails.

And that's perfectly fine, SE should have realized that above all else most people wanted to play dress up with pretty animal eared women over having a 1:1 version of Fran if it meant the race could be "normal" and I don't see a world where an alt bunny race doesn't become hella popular.

(And I actually supported Viera getting into this game since before HW (was super bummed at the Draggo reveal), actively posting here in support of getting them in. Fran was the only non-human FF character I knew at the time and I knew the race was black coded, so they would make great tall black women. The legit only reason I don't play one isn't because of the head stuff, it's because they barely animate or show emotion and I don't personally like to play such reserved characters, so they're a let-down for me. I'm not throwing shade at all, people like pretty characters, and I'm no different. My taste is far wider than most, but I'm picky af about things like animation and hair types ... so I'm highly disappointed with the options in this game for a number of reasons)

I don’t really feel like talking in circles any more with you because neither of us is budging, nor have we ever seen eye to eye on this subject in any capacity. Gotta say I don’t think I’ve ever met anybody as invested in a race they have no interest in playing.

*points above at my long history of actually supporting Veira to the point of shouting down people who wanted "beast races" because there's "no way SE would add them when that means remodeling all the headgear" ... that stance aged well.

My fascination with these races actually comes from a background in video games and animation. I like looking at the puzzle that is these messes and seeing how the devs think even if I feel 1 is a complete waste of an option because of stiff, lack luster animations.

And I have no clue how we're "talking in circles". The devs didn't go "Opps, forgot to make hat hair models ... welp, no hats!", they didn't make hat hair models because they made the race with no intention of giving them hats. If you can look at how it's technically possible and easy to have hats show up on Viera and come up with a reason other than "They think "let it clip" isn't acceptable for hats and most all helms" then feel free to say what that theory is ... cause there's really no real reason that I see other they don't think it's acceptable.

[Yencat]

snip

You're really hung up on arguing about hats when the majority of the posts in this thread have been about the additional customization they were supposed to be adding and so far haven't.

BunniEclair has repeatedly stated they personally don't care all that much about hats but you keep bringing it up to the point it's going in circles.

Headgear is part of the discussion of course, but it's a drop in the bucket of the other issues the races have.

[reivaxe]

You're really hung up on arguing about hats when the majority of the posts in this thread have been about the additional customization they were supposed to be adding and so far haven't.

I'm not talking to a "majority of post" in this thread, I was pointing out how this ...

This is because it’s the racially unique hair, which they did not model “hat versions” for that is the issue. So you can get away with helmets because it makes sense for the wearer to tuck away hair when donning them. A little harder to explain away why your bunny is suddenly bald when putting on a wizard hat.

Is backwards logic. Saying "I don't care about hats that much ... buuut they wouldn't need to do xyz or 4 extra models to get them to work because I think clipping is fine" doesn't cover up that you're basically saying the result is the cause. "Take the L" is good practice.

[BunniEclair]

....

I seem to have touched a nerve so if you genuinely felt upset or insulted that I was teasing you for saying “weeby players just want their bunny girls miqos” while playing a miqo, I apologize. Sincerely. I have agreed and discussed stuff with you in the female Hrothgar thread and actually enjoyed it. But you take every opportunity to come into viera focused threads and say some iteration of “a certain type of player plays viera that’s why they’re all so whiny” and then go on some long diatribe about how we are wrong for wanting pretty much anything, that it’s a waste of a race, etc. So forgive me if I assumed “certain type of player” didn’t mean “a player I disagree with but ultimately respect”. You come across less fascinated with character design and more hellbent on yelling at viera players about how none of us get it.

Your history of supporting viera is not something I’m privy to, because I only see you shouting us down, saying they’re a waste, etc and I haven’t creeped on your post history extensively. I do not have time to. I am very busy on the forums yelling about one (1) aspect of viera on repeat until I am finally free. Please understand.

I want to talk about hair so bad. Why can’t we have it? I’m begging you SE. I love everything else about them aside from that one thing. Please let us ascend.

[reivaxe]

I seem to have touched a nerve

No, don't take it personally. This is very much inline with how I talk about these races because much of the disconnect players have with understanding the "why" is that people don't generally try to think like the devs or look at things from their pov. Not that I'm some authority on big game design, but I do know a thing or 2 about it and like to get people to think deeper about what they're upset about if they decide to be that invested in it.

Many answers as to why the devs do what they do can be found in looking at patterns throughout the game.

But you take every opportunity to come into viera focused threads and say some iteration of “a certain type of player plays viera that’s why they’re all so whiny” and then go on some long diatribe about how we are wrong for wanting pretty much anything, that it’s a waste of a race, etc. So forgive me if I assumed “certain type of player” didn’t mean “a player I disagree with but ultimately respect”. You come across less fascinated with character design and more hellbent on yelling at viera players about how none of us get it.

I stand by "a certain type of player plays viera that’s why they’re all so whiny" because that's like 80% of the player base. I know not everyone is like me and would be fine playing a furry female with 0 hair options "so long as I like em" or only cares about 2-3 hats and can rock the same short hairstyle for a year, people in this game overwhelmingly prefer to play dress up with their cute/ attractive things and that includes hair.

There's not a bone in my body that thinks Viera players are unique in that way and that Middies or lalas or Cat girls would take not being able to "fully play dress-up with hats and having like only 8 hairstyles" any better. This is SE's fault for not realizing many people wanted Viera because they're the most well known attractive non-human FF race, so they ended up making something with very lacking dress up potential in the most important part of the body in a game with 0 body shape customization. They are the ones who decided to make a pair of limited races after all instead of doing the compromises they would have to to make them compatible with the game's current systems.

That being said, they have explicitly and repeatedly confirmed and reassured people of their plans for these races which many ignore. I'm not at all a fan of willful ignorance for the sake of a pity party.

You come across less fascinated with character design and more hellbent on yelling at viera players about how none of us get it.

These things are not mutually exclusive.
I look into how the devs go about things because it's fascinating to me as the thing I want most in this game (Female Hrothgar) is held prisoner to the work flow process of these devs. To me, if I'm going to be that invested in wanting something then I'm going to try to understand it over yelling at clouds about it.

In doing so, I find that many "don't get it".

For example, I'm fairly sure I know "why" the devs decided to only give Viera unique hairstyles. I'm also sure I know "why" the devs added Hrothgar. And everywhere I look I see people taking their own hot takes at face value with very lil critical thought or research on it, so you get endless circles of people throwing blame every which way for not getting the things they want.

Your history of supporting viera is not something I’m privy to, because I only see you shouting us down, saying they’re a waste, etc and I haven’t creeped on your post history extensively.

You seem to put far too much stock into someone's ava.
I wouldn't expect you to creep through my post and know my long history of wanting Viera in this game starting back as far as Arr times, that would be silly. But it's very silly to read someone's intent a certain way because of the race of their ava. If Viera had an emotional range beyond "Shrugs" I'd be playing one RIGHT NOW and still be telling people that making "countless threads isn't going to get your hair faster/ accept that they're not giving you hats and shared hairs or play something else".
I may think that the race it's self is a waste of potential and "if that's what they're going to do then they shoulda just made a full Hrothgar race", but I don't think poorly of people who PLAY the race.

I have however posted on these forums long enough and visit enough other communities for this game to know that this forum has become little more than a cis pool of complaining about every lil thing in this game with zero desire for critical thinking ... so if I'm poop talking to anyone it's the general culture of the OF at this point.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

they have explicitly and repeatedly confirmed and reassured people of their plans for these races which many ignore. I'm not at all a fan of willful ignorance for the sake of a pity party.