Seriously? No mail box?

[NoctisUmbra]

I'm not "mad" at anything. They overcomplicated the game from the start. Even if he was forced to push it faster. Nobody liked the idea of these new classes. Everyone wanted their monk, warrior, dragoon, summoner, ect... Why go through all the trouble to make theses jobs what they did. Same reason, why do they need to rename every race? Whats the point? There isn't one, which pisses me off to no end. There's a reason people have followed the classic final fantasies from the beginning. We love the job system that they've always had and always followed. Why stray from it now when you've been so successful before? It's stupid marketing for one. And the beginning of a bad game.

Game wasn't bad because of the race names. That's just silly to even suggest. Classes - perhaps. Even then, their names or even design philosophies weren't a major problem. There's a long list of reasons why FFXIV had a horrible launch. The ones you just mentioned are minor pet-peeves at best.

Regardless, any argument pertaining to the crappy launch of FFXIV is moot at this point. Just beating a dead horse. Everyone knows FFXIV was crap at launch. It's drudging along trying barely to get better ever since, and will continue in such a state until 2.0. Simply how it is. Raging over what's done and past is useless.

[Sidious]

Classes - perhaps. Even then, their names or even design philosophies weren't a major problem.

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

Don't even bring up the FFXIII doesn't count argument

It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

[NoctisUmbra]

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

Their designs were bad. Not because of their names. Their naming being non-traditional had nothing to do with it. Currently classes maintain their original names and are much better designed. Nice try lol.

It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

Great opinion there. Reason I referred to it is due to it being a numbered iteration of the FF series, and it predating XIV. While meeting these conditions, it also had names given Roles - to its rendition of classes/jobs - that were brand new.

Set aside the fact that not everyone hated that game, and that it sold quite well as a successful game - and that it's sequel XIII-2 uses the same Roles and is a solid RPG by any standard - any hate and/or disappointment towards XIII did not stem from their coice of names for the Roles. There were reasons to hate that game. The names of the roles were not a legitimate reason for it's failure. The semantics argument is getting old.

[coldviper18]

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.



It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

^ What he said.
Only reason I even mention names of jobs and races is because thats exactly where the problem started. I would put my life on it, that if they just had made this FFXI - 2, with the better graphics, and some new interface and a new world it would have done way better than it did. My point is that they over complicated things from the start which made it undesirable completely. And it all started with naming the jobs and races.

Even though FFXI is old, with new graphics and a new world, I would be head over heals with a new mithra thief with amazing graphics and whole new content to explore. Instead, I have a Miqo'te? Archer thats eventually going to grow a strong desire to sign up for american idol? OK............

[NoctisUmbra]

^ What he said.
Only reason I even mention names of jobs and races is because thats exactly where the problem started. I would put my life on it, that if they just had made this FFXI - 2, with the better graphics, and some new interface and a new world it would have done way better than it did. My point is that they over complicated things from the start which made it undesirable completely. And it all started with naming the jobs and races.

Even though FFXI is old, with new graphics and a new world, I would be head over heals with a new mithra thief with amazing graphics and whole new content to explore. Instead, I have a Miqo'te? Archer thats eventually going to grow a strong desire to sign up for american idol? OK............

If they wanted XI-2, they would have made XI-2. When they make a new numbered iteration, SE tends to explore new design options.

As for the classes being designed poorly, I won't disagree. It is already accepted XIV had many faults. A lot of ambitious ideas that didn't quite work out. I've simply been responding to your arguments along the lines of their names and or staple designs. Not every FF game has to have the classic, traditional jobs. In fact, most numbered iterations do not.

Well conceived and poorly executed, as Rydin said above me, best expresses my feelings for the state of classes before the changes that patches brought.

[whoopeeragon]

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.



It does count-- as a perfect example of what not to do.

^ Fruitless opinions. Since when did they scrap the whole Armoury System? They're merely tweaking it to suit future needs better; classes are still here. The Job System is just an overlay towards the Armoury System, not a replacement. Their designs were not bad at all; you may as well have called the sub-job system of FFXI equally bad as well, because the Armoury system is essentially the sub-job system except more diverse. The overhaul they did last patch? Was not a 'scrap'; they kept what made the Armoury System unique, and merely changed the abilities, not the concept. And asides from CNJ and THM, the other classes didn't go much of a large reconstruction. They certainly didn't scrap the idea behind classes at all.

And for all it's changes, the FFXIII system worked well in a tactical manner. But....if you set yourself up to hate it, you'll hate it.

[Rydin]

Lol, which FFXIV are you playing? Because in the one I am playing, the classes and their design philosophies were so bad that they're having to essentially scrap the whole thing.

I disagree with saying the launch classes were philosophical disasters
I personally thought they were well conceived but poorly executed. Tweaks were needed but overall I thought they had the right idea
I pose this:
what if each base class stayed just as vague and formless as they were at launch... but had progression trees where they branched into more specific roles

Thaum had low level heals, debuffs, nukes and Dots (I'll admit, they should have versions not nearly as powerful as they were originally given)
In terms of Jobs... what if one branch of Thaum went the way of the Ossuary with Dark Arts... and the other went the way of the Sacrarium, light or Life arts
then the dark thaum branched to DoT specialist or Battle Mage with TP moves
While the light thaum went with either Sacrifice heals or Dia/Holy Nukes
thats 4 specializations that could have each been given a name just from Thaum as a base class

the problem with Jobs is they want to have multiple jobs for each class....
and Jobs specialize. but how can you specialize in something with a job that the classes NEVER did...

If Jobs are indeed a specialization... then classes could have... and in fact... should have been kept extremely general.

I pose this to you... as it stands now... Jobs are NO MORE SPECIALIZED than the current classes....
Glads do 1 thing... TANK..... Paladin will do 1 thing... guess what that is?
Conjurers do 1 thing.... and yea.. you guessed it.. WHM does that same 1 thing....
with the way classes were changed in 1.20.... we don't need Jobs...we just need those 5 abilities
they are not specializations... they are continuations of what we've been doing with the classes