Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Bright-Flower]

The 2B thing was a bug/issue that they addressed and then that was that.

This isn't a bug but a requested feature people want, but that they so far as we know simply are not in a position to add. It doesn't matter how long this threat goes on, it's not going to change the realities of their development budget and resources, so having someone pop in to say 'we hear your feedback but we're not adding them at this time' every now and then isn't really going to contribute anything IMO.

[Lauront]

Considering the vitriol spat out towards the devs in this thread and the fact that the first page (depending on your forum settings at least) has someone accusing them of being homophobes, it's no surprise they're avoiding this one. Yoshi P has already said that male viera aren't going to happen based on the current state of the game and development, and that was pre-covid.

If there's no change and no development at all towards this, then what would they have to say? What are you expecting to hear back?

The general feedback from this thread is that we want it. Yoshi P acknowledged it in a blog post and several interviews but they don't really owe us a status update saying the same thing every 3 months.




What is ambiguous about the HW concept art? The top of the page says: "au ra concepts - the viera". They have already stated that it was based on the forum poll during 1.0(?) asking about new races and viera were an option, among other things. Then it goes on to "au ra concepts - beastly" and it shows the very first art of lupin, who the devs also said were originally an au ra candidate. But until ShB, the viera didn't get passed the concept art stage. Just because they exist in art doesn't mean much. There's art for a lot of things in the art books that never made it into the game. I don't know what part of this is confusing.

What is ambiguous about it is that it gave an indication of how they would design them, and that this came after the 2013 interview where Yoshi had said he felt they'd be weird. I never said concept art guarantees much, but to just brush it aside, say nothing about it, when people were actively bringing up this material put out by SE when discussing the topic, is indeed very ambiguous. Throwing some glib "there's a lot of things in the art books that never made it into the game", as if this is the same, is disingenuous.

[Theodric]

As an aside, there's nothing inherently weird about the idea of a bunny man unless they're specifically designed to be weird.

I just don't see why a bunny man would be weird but a bunny girl isn't.

[BunniEclair]

He never said that, he felt it was important to add them for ARR launch, but he never said they wouldn't gender lock future races again. He literally said if they did Viera they'd do another male only race the same year ARR launched.

I think they should release them at some point but there wasn't any sort of statement that they wouldn't do it again.

This is true. Though I think it’s a weird choice to be like “oh we gotta get these races fleshed out with the missing genders, I think this is important” and then make...the same choice down the line with other races.

Allegedly the only reason we didn’t get female Hrothgar was because they tried to please everyone by adding both viera and hrothgar at the same time. They said it’s their last chance to add more (why?), so they compromised and did one gender of each. It had everything to do with resources and time, not really anything to do with not wanting them in the game. So I think it makes sense to think that if somewhere down the line they had time and resources to devote to it, that they would add the other genders. Thinking they might find the time and resources any time soon may be a bit optimistic, but I don’t think it’s out of the question.

[MikkoAkure]

What is ambiguous about it is that it gave an indication of how they would design them, and that this came after the 2013 interview where Yoshi had said he felt they'd be weird. I never said concept art guarantees much, but to just brush it aside, say nothing about it, when people were actively bringing up this material put out by SE when discussing the topic, is indeed very ambiguous. Throwing some glib "there's a lot of things in the art books that never made it into the game", as if this is the same, is disingenuous.

Just because Yoshi P says something feels weird to him once in an interview doesn't mean that it's never going to happen or that they're purposefully being ambiguous or giving us mixed messages. He's changed his mind on things before. If he didn't, then we wouldn't have had ungenderlocked wedding or bunny outfits. Even without changing his mind on things, the dev team has gone behind his back before, like when they added glasses and other things after Yoshi P said that the new races weren't getting any form of headgear at all.

What probably happened with this artwork, is that sometime between the race poll and the beginning of HW development, the director put out a request to the art team to draw concepts for different types of race ideas based on those from the poll. After that, they were presented to the director or whoever else may be in charge of that specific project. Specific designs are approved or declined with input given and they go back and forth until the final product is formed. You can see the whole process in this art book for the au ra as they evolved from multiple different concepts, but ended up having a lot of the more difficult or exotic parts shaved away until they were more human looking. Everything else, including the concepts that didn't lead to the final product, gets dropped or tucked away until someone wants to recycle old ideas as something new.

Obviously viera were rejected at the concept phase. We don't know what conversations happened behind the scenes except for a comment I think I remember where Yoshi said that they wanted something original. It could totally be that he still thought bunny boys are weird, but that still didn't stop him from asking for concepts to be created as a part of the au ra project.

[reivaxe]

It's come up several times in this thread, it was more a desire to satisfy player demands than any sort of promise or statement they'd never do it again. It's been a game of telephone for ages with the comment turning into an outright statement of never doing again.

He'd really have to be talking out of both sides of his mouth to promise no more genderlocks for ARR and then go on to talk about male Viera being 'weird' so they'd do something else instead the same year ARR comes out.

But I honestly don't know what he has against them either.

The reason no one can find an interview of YP saying "no more gender locks!" is because he never said that. He never promised that. It's a lie people convinced themselves to believe because this forum is nothing if not a place people go to demand things they feel entitled to and YP "breaking his PROMISE!" makes your demands look all the more valid.

Tis why we can easily find him saying "no Male Viera" that same year yet no one can find this "promise" to never gender lock and condemning the practice. (And be real people, 1.0 wasn't saved by genders. The missing genders were just a small part of the burning house known as 1.0. Also, the reason they could add in the genders back then when they went to work FIXING the game is because the game was way waaaay smaller back then. That was super early in the game's life, they didn't have the back-log of gear and animations they have to deal with now. The way they make stuff for your character in this game means that the more time passes the harder it is to add a new race/ character model. That's why it wasn't as big of a deal to add the missing genders for ARR as it is now)

[Yencat]

As an aside, there's nothing inherently weird about the idea of a bunny man unless they're specifically designed to be weird.

I just don't see why a bunny man would be weird but a bunny girl isn't.

I remember an interview with Soken where he talked about how Lakshmi originally had a completely different, older looking design and Yoshida vetoed it saying she wasn't "cute enough" so they ended up making her younger and slimmer.

He seems to have some pretty specific views on what he likes and doesn't like.

[Lauront]

Just because Yoshi P says something feels weird to him once in an interview doesn't mean that it's never going to happen or that they're purposefully being ambiguous or giving us mixed messages. He's changed his mind on things before. If he didn't, then we wouldn't have had ungenderlocked wedding or bunny outfits. Even without changing his mind on things, the dev team has gone behind his back before, like when they added glasses and other things after Yoshi P said that the new races weren't getting any form of headgear at all.

What probably happened with this artwork, is that sometime between the race poll and the beginning of HW development, the director put out a request to the art team to draw concepts for different types of race ideas based on those from the poll. After that, they were presented to the director or whoever else may be in charge of that specific project. Specific designs are approved or declined with input given and they go back and forth until the final product is formed. You can see the whole process in this art book for the au ra as they evolved from multiple different concepts, but ended up having a lot of the more difficult or exotic parts shaved away until they were more human looking. Everything else, including the concepts that didn't lead to the final product, gets dropped or tucked away until someone wants to recycle old ideas as something new.

Obviously viera were rejected at the concept phase. We don't know what conversations happened behind the scenes except for a comment I think I remember where Yoshi said that they wanted something original. It could totally be that he still thought bunny boys are weird, but that still didn't stop him from asking for concepts to be created as a part of the au ra project.

Yeah, so while I don't disagree that this is probably what was happening behind the scenes, I still consider that in conjunction with rather obscure interviews dating to 2013, the more widely circulated concept art (on sites they say they keep track of, like Reddit, Twitter, and the OF) had left it ambiguous what would eventually be done with male Viera. You are having to fill in gaps here with assumptions, which however reasonable, means it isn't something we have a direct answer to. They didn't come out and address this in all likelihood because they had little intention of adding them and only came clean with it by the 3rd Fanfest (leaks telegraphing this ahead of time, aside), and even that answer did not give the actual rationale. That came later, via interviews and the letter to the community. It may not have been a purposefully mixed image but the choice to remain silent between when the decision to reveal them was made and the 3rd Fanfest was very much a conscious decision.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

As an aside, there's nothing inherently weird about the idea of a bunny man unless they're specifically designed to be weird.

I just don't see why a bunny man would be weird but a bunny girl isn't.

...why would a Bunny girl be weird but a Bunny Man shouldn't? Red Flags man...

Joke aside, thats just how they view it. Some countries, cultures and people may view things differently then others. You love the idea of "Classically Handsome" (a phrase you use alot) Male Viera. Maybe they dont View Viera, much less Male Viera the same. There is nothing inherently attractive about the idea either....we dont even know how they would look to begin with.

Allegedly the only reason we didn’t get female Hrothgar was because they tried to please everyone by adding both viera and hrothgar at the same time. They said it’s their last chance to add more (why?), so they compromised and did one gender of each. It had everything to do with resources and time, not really anything to do with not wanting them in the game. So I think it makes sense to think that if somewhere down the line they had time and resources to devote to it, that they would add the other genders. Thinking they might find the time and resources any time soon may be a bit optimistic, but I don’t think it’s out of the question.

Yes, YoshiP said this, MULTIPLE times with the DOZENS of times he was Asked about Male Viera, and their choice to do what they did, and if we could see Male Viera.
Like, it is amazing that he still so calmly answers Male Viera questions with how many times hes already answered and addressed it, and people continue to ask like something will change. (The Definition of Insanity)

But Why would it be their last chance?....they also addressed this, with each new race besides the costs and times it takes to animate and design them, the way their game and development works is they create unique body rigs for their races and the genders, and so they have to manually adjust and fit the armor and equipment. Meaning its not just like Painted on, but the clothing may be actually objects being fitted to the models. As the game goes on and they continue to make and design new equipment, making new races and genders means they have to go back and fit all that armor, old and new. So its just...ALOT of time.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

He seems to have some pretty specific views on what he likes and doesn't like.

Just like everyone else...lol :P