RP Party finders being reported AGAIN without so much as a reason.

[MilkieTea]

You do know that there are differences between the adult mind and a minors mind, right?
The human brain doesn't stop developing until age 25, and the Frontal Cortex is what develops last.

The frontal cortex/lobe is "responsible for higher cognitive functions such as memory, emotions, impulse control, problem solving, social interaction, and motor function"

Minors don't have the emotional intelligence, nor impulse control that an adult has, and do not have the same capacity for sound decision making and so yeah, they'll make dumb mistakes.
They're also far vulnerable than adults in certain social situations. That's why they get leniency, and why they generally need to be protected from creeps, by adults who have their frontal cortex fully developed and can identify potentially dangerous situations that a minor may not be able to.

i already told him this, it’s useless lol.

[Saefinn]

I cannot stress this enough: the GMs don’t care if you ERP in private. They aren’t trying to “stomp it out”. This was not some sort of ERP “sting”- nobody from the venue was pulled into gaol for participating. It was literally just the people hosting the public PF, all three of which openly offer ERP services listed on the websites they linked to in their PF directly.

How about instead of fighting back harder you just, idk, don’t advertise it in PF when you have been asked not to? Whether it was direct or indirect doesn’t matter. If PF is the issue then just use another avenue for advertising.

“Even with cracking down, people will find other ways to do it.” Yeah, this is literally all that is currently being asked of these venues. Find other ways to do it.

I think very much this. It's clear now that advertising ERP in PF will get you in trouble, but ERPing probably won't, especially if it's private.

[Awha]

i already told him this, it’s useless lol.

Already told ya I am not talking solely about sound minded adults. Development can be impeded by my factors many if which are outside the control of the person as I mentioned in my follow up post to many. None of which has been said really seems to go against my view which is why I am confused. If we offer the same social and legal considerations tied to a certain developmental bench mark why not offer same social considerations for adults? Sure in extreme cases adults are granted the same considerations. Though in reality someone could very well be able to function as an independent individual of society but still have similar or if not the same general intelligence, judgement capacity as a teenager. Yet for those adults we tell them tough shoukd have err on the side of caution and place the responsibility on them due to their physical age.

I get it is an easier metric to go back since other metrics leave the door open for abuse by adults. Though as I mentioned minors also abuse the system and as a society we seems to accept that degree of abuse so I feel the same considerations should be offered for adults. Unless by in large what people are saying is some minors are not manipulative shits that do go out of therr way to get misguide and deceive adults in some effort to get people in trouble or for personal gain. I mean at the very least I would understand that stance if someone thought minors are generally not capable of such actions. I would disagree but I would understand. Though the developmental stance confuses me since I am just saying that adults that have the same thought process or patterns akin to a minor should also be offered the same level of consideration in a legal and social context.

Though yes I still do think minors that willfully target adults in attempts to willfully mislead and deceive should be held to a harsher standard of punishment maybe even boarding on the same an adult would face if they are found to be guilty of said action. Sure they may not understand the consequences of their actions in that moment and with time they will see the error of their ways. Though if the adult in question is shown to lack the capacity to read the general signs of deception and they had a belief as to what they we being told was correct in this case should the burden really be on the adult for someone lying to them? Sure for the most part many can tell the difference but non neurotypical individuals may have a hard time with this especially if they have been sheltered by those around them providing care.

Not a 100% a proper comparison but I do not understand or get flirting. To me it goes completely over my head I am oblivious to it.

In that vein I do think it is safe to assume that in some cases someone may be oblivious to see when flirting may not mean anything expect playful banter.

Some people are naive and gullible enough to trust other people. A person who appeared to be blind asked me for help so I helped. They wanted me to walk them up to their apartment so I did cause I am gullible. Unfortunately the person was not blind I really did not notice the signs of them not really being blind like the way they walked and moved. They robbed me once I got them to the apartment.

Is it really that shocking to think that people might just believe when someone tells them they are of age especially in this digital age of convenience we live in? In the case of me being robbed for the most part people said the one who willfully lied and deceived me barred most the blame. Yet when it comes to minors that pull this stuff it does not get a pass so to speak but a certain contains a certain degree of understanding or compassion on the part of the minor. I am sorry I just do not have much compassion for those types of people. Not to say if a 6 year lies to me I am going to lose my shit but in this vain I think it safe to assume we are talking teenagers. Where for many the lies of behavior and appearance to blurr. Unless you are able to read between the lines. I will not lie while in university I had a hard time telling the difference between some 20 something year olds and high schoolers. I know some could but to me a lot of spoke, looked, and acted the same. It largely felt like High school 2.0

[Kaurhz]

Brevity

The problem with your proposal and constant crusading are that it is excruciatingly difficult to legally reason. As far as the law is concerned, and as far as many individuals are concerned it is well reasoned that if you understood the act you were committing, then you are wholly capable of understanding the consequences of those very actions. The only reason you wouldn't is largely down to neglect of the law. Now, I will highlight a difference here before you start another crusade. Is that developmental milestones are far as the brain is concerned are empirically proven, and largely universal, through significant and rigorous research as far as children are concerned. On the other hand, disabilities are largely varied in the impact on the individual- If we even remotely tried to treat these as similar cases then the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim.

Though if I am being frank, if you knowingly and willingly engaged in potentially illicit activities and especially with someone not of appropriate age, then you more than likely understand the consequences behind such activities as an adult. If you've gone to the age of 27 (arbitrary) without a single conviction then it is very probable you're capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong- Which is all these acts come down to; is being able to distinguish between right and wrong.

The reason you won't find a child being held equally or more culpable than adults in these situations is that the child and the activity/context itself has demonstrated that the adult holds, without a shadow of a doubt the willingness to engage in illicit activities with a minor. Thus it stands to reason the adult should still be treated as whole culpable as there is a risk that the adult could do this very same activity with someone- a minor that doesn't necessarily have the intent to engage in such an activity. So they should be punished, and still are. You see this nonsense occur all the time on Discord, not specific to the XIV community, are lured and baited into situations they otherwise wouldn't be.

It comes down to the ability to distinguish between right and wrong activities and situations. Whether this is cruel or not is irrelevant. It is a system that works very well. Society itself and the internet with the plethora of resources are more than capable of educating the adult as to why it is not appropriate to engage in activities, they just need to be capable of searching for it- Which they are, if they use the internet.

But as far as I am concerned though you've more than aptly yourself given enough reason as to why 18+ material should not exist within a public and easily accessible place that one is able to find merely on a whim..

[Miracle_Diva]

As much as I don't really care about this whole PF RP thing, I think you guys should just get the memo already and wait it out until you get an official response on this topic, so you don't get more warnings and run to the forums with surprised pikachu face.

[Penthea]

Though yes I still do think minors that willfully target adults in attempts to willfully mislead and deceive should be held to a harsher standard of punishment maybe even boarding on the same an adult would face if they are found to be guilty of said action. Sure they may not understand the consequences of their actions in that moment and with time they will see the error of their ways.

That you consider that a child should potentially be judged as harshly as an adult for intentional deception shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how children's lies often work.

Willful deception does not automatically equate to intentionally trying to ruin someone's life. A 15 year old lying by saying they're 18 could simply have the goal of getting someone's positive attention. This doesn't mean they want the attention for malicious purposes. They may just want attention because they want the other person to think they're mature, cool, desirable and so on. Some get so caught up in the excitement of someone older than them showing an interest that they will lie so that the person doesn't lose interest. This can easily happen to a child because they very much live in the present. Due to lack of life experience and brain development they often don't have the capacity to realise how a situation like this can eventually snowball into an uncontrollable mess.

And even if they do lie with malicious intent in mind children often lack the life experience and brain development to understand what they thought was a fun prank could destroy someone's life. Very few children lie with the intent to absolutely ruin someone to the point of having them sent to prison.

Whereas an adult is at an age in which they have a far better understanding of how lies can lead to finding themselves trapped in a bad situation. Sure many adults lie, but those that do are better at it now than when they were a child because they're actively looking ahead to make sure they don't get caught. Children often aren't able to look ahead enough to properly envision consequences. Especially if they're treading in unfamiliar territory such as a relationship that only adults should be having.

And this is why the burden of responsibility lies chiefly with the adult. They're in a far better position to understand the situation they're in, and better know how to prevent illegal deeds from happening. Sure some adults are naive but this doesn't change the fact that they had more time to learn how the world works than a child. At the very least they would be aware of what the age of consent is, and it is their responsibility to make sure that the other person is at that age. And if a person is evasive about proving it, then they should know something is wrong.

As for people who are not neurotypical, there is a big problem. Not only are mental and developmental issues attached to a very negative stigma, many people who are neurodivergent do not get diagnosed early in life, so then they lack an educational background that would truly help them navigate the world. But this particular issue is pointing to another problem and that is society's lack of understanding as to how differently a neurodivergent person processes their experiences.

[Awha]

The problem with your proposal and constant crusading are that it is excruciatingly difficult to legally reason. As far as the law is concerned, and as far as many individuals are concerned it is well reasoned that if you understood the act you were committing, then you are wholly capable of understanding the consequences of those very actions. The only reason you wouldn't is largely down to neglect of the law. Now, I will highlight a difference here before you start another crusade. Is that developmental milestones are far as the brain is concerned are empirically proven, and largely universal, through significant and rigorous research as far as children are concerned. On the other hand, disabilities are largely varied in the impact on the individual- If we even remotely tried to treat these as similar cases then the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim.

Though if I am being frank, if you knowingly and willingly engaged in potentially illicit activities and especially with someone not of appropriate age, then you more than likely understand the consequences behind such activities as an adult. If you've gone to the age of 27 (arbitrary) without a single conviction then it is very probable you're capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong- Which is all these acts come down to; is being able to distinguish between right and wrong.

The reason you won't find a child being held equally or more culpable than adults in these situations is that the child and the activity/context itself has demonstrated that the adult holds, without a shadow of a doubt the willingness to engage in illicit activities with a minor. Thus it stands to reason the adult should still be treated as whole culpable as there is a risk that the adult could do this very same activity with someone- a minor that doesn't necessarily have the intent to engage in such an activity. So they should be punished, and still are. You see this nonsense occur all the time on Discord, not specific to the XIV community, are lured and baited into situations they otherwise wouldn't be.

It comes down to the ability to distinguish between right and wrong activities and situations. Whether this is cruel or not is irrelevant. It is a system that works very well. Society itself and the internet with the plethora of resources are more than capable of educating the adult as to why it is not appropriate to engage in activities, they just need to be capable of searching for it- Which they are, if they use the internet.

But as far as I am concerned though you've more than aptly yourself given enough reason as to why 18+ material should not exist within a public and easily accessible place that one is able to find merely on a whim..

In the end you are saying it is hard. I have accepted that fact but even so you still everything you mentioned can still be possible for non neurotypical individuals. I have granted the notion that it would be difficult and even went one step further it does leave open the door to abuse as a potential loophole for people to abuse.

In genuine situations that willingness it engage in illicit behavior with a minor may not even be present.

The point remains while manipulative and deceitful adults exist that pray on vulnerable individuals the same can be said for minors. Yet our laws and society rarely reflect this possibility and some even have a tolerance to it and treat it as a learning experience.

I like I said in other posts a non neurotypical may understand the difference between right and wrong. What I am saying goes beyond that. In someone cases functioning non neurotypical individuals who have jobs live alone etc . . . May still very well fall pray to advances of someone that shows interest in them, and if they ask the age and told something different or maybe just assume given the venue they are is meant for adults then I think society and the law should put in the effort to understand the context.

This goes beyond the whole erp thing. In the end just because something is hard and more difficult does not mean we as a society or legal system should not try and adapt with the times. More and more non neurotypical individuals reach adulthood and some may live extremely sheltered lives and have atypical behavior when to comes to social boundaries or understanding social norms and cues and could very well be deemed capable enough of generally taking care of oneself while having some of these slight differences in development. It is time we accept that age it in self is no a proper marker for development and come to terms with the fact that minors are capable of manipulation and deception when it comes to people and we should also want to protect vaurarable adults from possible predators be them adults or minors.

I believe the same standard should apply across the board. Is that crazy?

That you consider that a child should potentially be judged as harshly as an adult for intentional deception shows that you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how children's lies often work.

Willful deception does not automatically equate to intentionally trying to ruin someone's life. A 15 year old lying by saying they're 18 could simply have the goal of getting someone's positive attention. This doesn't mean they want the attention for malicious purposes. They may just want attention because they want the other person to think they're mature, cool, desirable and so on. Some get so caught up in the excitement of someone older than them showing an interest that they will lie so that the person doesn't lose interest. This can easily happen to a child because they very much live in the present. Due to lack of life experience and brain development they often don't have the capacity to realise how a situation like this can eventually snowball into an uncontrollable mess.

And even if they do lie with malicious intent in mind children often lack the life experience and brain development to understand what they thought was a fun prank could destroy someone's life. Very few children lie with the intent to absolutely ruin someone to the point of having them sent to prison.

Whereas an adult is at an age in which they have a far better understanding of how lies can lead to finding themselves trapped in a bad situation. Sure many adults lie, but those that do are better at it now than when they were a child because they're actively looking ahead to make sure they don't get caught. Children often aren't able to look ahead enough to properly envision consequences. Especially if they're treading in unfamiliar territory such as a relationship that only adults should be having.

And this is why the burden of responsibility lies chiefly with the adult. They're in a far better position to understand the situation they're in, and better know how to prevent illegal deeds from happening. Sure some adults are naive but this doesn't change the fact that they had more time to learn how the world works than a child. At the very least they would be aware of what the age of consent is, and it is their responsibility to make sure that the other person is at that age. And if a person is evasive about proving it, then they should know something is wrong.

As for people who are not neurotypical, there is a big problem. Not only are mental and developmental issues attached to a very negative stigma, many people who are neurodivergent do not get diagnosed early in life, so then they lack an educational background that would truly help them navigate the world. But this particular issue is pointing to another problem and that is society's lack of understanding as to how differently a neurodivergent person processes their experiences.

What I am saying is context matters. If a 15 year old gets a fake ID and gets into a bar I do not think they should be thrown in jail though I also not think think the bar or person at the door should also be held 100% responsible when digging deep into the context. How good was the ID based off video footage of available how did they carry themselves could another adult reasonable not see through their lie.

Sure in some cases it is prank, though I have seen other cases where minors have done things just to ruin the lives of adults. It is not unheard of, and that is what worries me that for some reason people think it is so far fetched to see a minor capable of doing something for the sole purpose of ruining the life of another. Sure in some cases that was not the intent but say they lied then when the person found out they were lying they tried to break everything off. Said minor does not take it well, and plays up the victim card. This person's life is over since rarely people look at the context.

General messed up notice is if someone is non neurotypical they could easily be egged on to plead guilty for an easy open shut case cause often they do not have the money for proper representation and proving such a thing would take a lot of resources. Hell you do not even have to be non neurotypical to be talked into just taking a plea that admits full guilt. Cause the social stigma alone pursing it via trial is just not wise.

[Arillyn]

In the end you are saying it is hard. I have accepted that fact but even so you still everything you mentioned can still be possible for non neurotypical individuals. I have granted the notion that it would be difficult and even went one step further it does leave open the door to abuse as a potential loophole for people to abuse.

In genuine situations that willingness it engage in illicit behavior with a minor may not even be present.

The point remains while manipulative and deceitful adults exist that pray on vulnerable individuals the same can be said for minors. Yet our laws and society rarely reflect this possibility and some even have a tolerance to it and treat it as a learning experience.

I like I said in other posts a non neurotypical may understand the difference between right and wrong. What I am saying goes beyond that. In someone cases functioning non neurotypical individuals who have jobs live alone etc . . . May still very well fall pray to advances of someone that shows interest in them, and if they ask the age and told something different or maybe just assume given the venue they are is meant for adults then I think society and the law should put in the effort to understand the context.

This goes beyond the whole erp thing. In the end just because something is hard and more difficult does not mean we as a society or legal system should not try and adapt with the times. More and more non neurotypical individuals reach adulthood and some may live extremely sheltered lives and have atypical behavior when to comes to social boundaries or understanding social norms and cues and could very well be deemed capable enough of generally taking care of oneself while having some of these slight differences in development. It is time we accept that age it in self is no a proper marker for development and come to terms with the fact that minors are capable of manipulation and deception when it comes to people and we should also want to protect vaurarable adults from possible predators be them adults or minors.

I believe the same standard should apply across the board. Is that crazy?

Neurotypical adults can also be manipulated and fall prey to deception. If a law is broken they have recourse as do non neurotypical adults. Children are treated different than adults for a good reason. Although, depending on the age, the severity of the law broken and mitigating circumstances they can be tried as an adult.

However, this is a game and this topic is essentially about ERP. ERP with children is not okay. Full stop.

[LianaThorne]

I have no idea how this topic shift happened but has anyone brought up the insanity defense/diminished capacity yet? It's literally there for those who have mental health issues in court to say that they weren't sane/aware enough to know what they were doing. Idk why it's being ignored and if it was brought up already then apologies for missing it.

Link to info on it: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense

There's no guarantee you'll be granted it but that's life with the law. There's no guarantees unless you're famous/disgustingly rich.

[Arillyn]

I have no idea how this topic shift happened but has anyone brought up the insanity defense yet? It's literally there for those who have mental health issues in court to say that they weren't sane/aware enough to know what they were doing. Idk why it's being ignored and if it was brought up already then apologies for missing it.

Not that I've seen, but wouldn't be surprised. Wouldn't matter, that's a legal thing and still wouldn't count in this game.

Back on topic I think, and from everything I've seen, SE thinks advertising RP in PF is fine. Just keep the ERP out of PF as SE (and most people) are not okay with that. It's really not that hard.

To do a degree saying someone who is non neurotypical is insane opens up another ball of wax.

I don't think that's what they were saying at all.