Why is the Maturity Lvl of People Playing this game so much higher than that of WoW?

[VelKallor]

Honestly it really isn't. The only reason you think people are much nicer in this game is because SE holds a gun to their head telling them to be nice.

If by that you mean the TOS and codes of behaviour are enforced, yes they are, and glad I am of it. See, I dont need to worry about the TOS, I dont need to be told to mind my manners or not swear and scream at people, I already know this, as thats whats called civilised behaviour.

Recently I saw someone comment that why should they not be allowed to swear as 'theres a filter", it really comes down to this:

If whatever it is you want to say cannot ever be said to that persons face, then dont say it. Treat people with basic common decency and kindness, practice some tolerance and a modicum of patience and as my own mother ( Love you to bits, Mum ) taught me, self control and maturity means knowing when to hold your tongue.

Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself, think before you type, when in doubt, take two or three deep breaths and count to ten. Then comment in a calm and measured tone, which, trust me, will be a huge improvement on what you wanted to say originally.

[Ammokkx]

Treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself

bold of you to assume I don't get off on the mudslinging

[VelKallor]

bold of you to assume I don't get off on the mudslinging

Of course Im bold..Im a Red Mage..well..sometimes I am...

[iVolke]

ffxiv players have this weird obsession with comparing the game to wow

[LittleImp]

((This applies mostly to high-end content; These days most 'elite' players I know are just kind of amused by really bad people in dungeons and find the stories fun to share))

People who try to make you out to be a bad person for respecting your own time are simply in on the grift.

When someone's performance is so poor that they put massive unfair strain on other players, or waste large amounts of other peoples time, it absolutely should be acceptable to speak with them openly about it, and to remove them from the party if necessary.

I probably wasted upwards of 30 hours of my life pugging an E12S clear on Crystal, due to the sheer amount of people willing to lie about their progression, or join on alternate classes they didn't actually know how to play. We even had more than one occasion of someone who had never cleared the first phase of the fight using our clear P2 party to get carried through a P1 clear, only to pretend they had internet problems and DC immediately. I don't think I was in a single P2 party that didn't have to explain basic relativity to someone.

I typically find it's more common for bad players to have exaggerated issues with their ego and self-worth in-game. They often spend a lot of time looking for excuses or ways to put down and undermine players that are just tangibly better than they are; It's really common to see 'casual' players inventing entirely new, totally arbitrary standards to rate others by which allow them to elevate their own play in some way. These kinds of weird ego issues are exactly what leads to the high propensity for trapping parties in this game.

Bad players spend months convincing themselves that they're better than other people and deserve things from other people for no particular reason; In my time in E12S I sat in many many calls where people gave long-winded rants and speeches about how they "Just haven't had a party that can do it yet" and they "never make mistakes" and feel they should join a party three mechanics ahead of what they actually know. Of course, these people often turn out to be the least consistent members of any given party. They've just warped reality to suit the needs of their ego, and will absolutely go join a party they don't belong in, only to ruin the experience and waste the time of 7 other people.

The point is, in this game it's often made to feel dangerous or wrong to try to hold these types of people accountable, despite that what they're doing is plainly amoral and harmful to others. Other people, who are likely guilty of the same behaviors, will readily jump in to defend these types of people because they're really just selfishly interested in defending themselves by proxy.

[Ralph2449]

The point is, in this game it's often made to feel dangerous or wrong to try to hold these types of people accountable.

Why do people act as if explaining a mechanic that was failed is gonna get them banned? I myself had to explain mechanics when I show some people have issues with it without targeting or attacking anyone, saying things like ‘try to avoid stacking lightning because it hurts a lot” or “try have markers placed in X so there’s a safe place on the ground Y’, those don’t target or insult anyone but simply inform them of what went wrong because it is possible for them to not be aware. This normalization of targeting a player directly is thankfully not allowed here and for good reason, not only to reduce toxicity but to also improve the community because if someone does a mistake they respond far better to reading what went wrong to someone who directly names and shames them which leads to even worse drama but tryhards don’t really care about other people to think about that.

Yes there are people who don’t know/remember all the mechanics, and because they know pugs can have elitist jerks who behave as if everyone should have done/know the fight when it was released they are forced to lie to get in since they want to do the fight and never ask for advice because they know they might get kicked so it is easier for them to stay silent when a screw up happens and try find what went wrong themselves rather than ask someone more experienced who knows exactly what went wrong.

The system SE has is a good one because it forces people to behave and have manners, unlike almost all other mmos who let toxic people run rampart because hiring Gms to enforce the ToS is too counterintuitive to their profits.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Why do people act as if explaining a mechanic that was failed is gonna get them banned? I myself had to explain mechanics when I show some people have issues with it without targeting or attacking anyone, saying things like ‘try to avoid stacking lightning because it hurts a lot” or “try have markers placed in X so there’s a safe place on the ground Y’, those don’t target or insult anyone but simply inform them of what went wrong because it is possible for them to not be aware. This normalization of targeting a player directly is thankfully not allowed here and for good reason, not only to reduce toxicity but to also improve the community because if someone does a mistake they respond far better to reading what went wrong to someone who directly names and shames them which leads to even worse drama but tryhards don’t really care about other people to think about that.

Yes there are people who don’t know/remember all the mechanics, and because they know pugs can have elitist jerks who behave as if everyone should have done/know the fight when it was released they are forced to lie to get in since they want to do the fight and never ask for advice because they know they might get kicked so it is easier for them to stay silent when a screw up happens and try find what went wrong themselves rather than ask someone more experienced who knows exactly what went wrong.

The system SE has is a good one because it forces people to behave and have manners, unlike almost all other mmos who let toxic people run rampart because hiring Gms to enforce the ToS is too counterintuitive to their profits.

Sometimes it doesn't matter whether the advices are positively worded or not. You can try to be as positive & encouraging with your wording as possible---heck, add emoji as an 'insurance' that your intention are good & pure if you're that kind of player---and there will still be obnoxious players who somehow can twist the words against themselves and be offended when they're called out/given advice. Once they're 'offended', additionally there's also some probability of 'white knighting'-phenomena coming from fellow party mate if you're unlucky; these odds suddenly made whoever tries to be helpful be the 'bad one'. These are the ones we're trying to avoid dealing with. There's no 'win-win' solution to this.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for giving advices as positively as possible (i.e. leave the salt out). The thing is these players probably also had a fair share of their bad times while giving advices and inclined to protect themselves before trying to save something else. Personally I'd rather bail out or see if the other prompt a vote kick/disband after seeing such mess.

[Ralph2449]

You can try to be as positive & encouraging with your wording as possible---heck, add emoji as an 'insurance' that your intention are good & pure if you're that kind of player---and there will still be obnoxious players who somehow can twist the words against themselves and be offended when they're called out/given advice..

Again I am absolutely against targeting specific players in any way like that, which is why when there’s a problem I talk about the mechanic without directly mentioning anyone, I am quite literally just explaining how the mechanic works with no targets, no salt or even negative implications and use words like ‘try’ or ‘be careful of’ instead of tryhard ‘commands’ like ‘do x’, ‘this is wrong, do it that way’ the way things are worded is very important.

I am not saying it is impossible for someone to really twist what I specifically said in such an extreme way and be offended, but the possibility of that happening with the way I say it is minuscule.

I remember joining a DF group for extreme sephiroth and we had so many wipes because many people didn’t know the mechanics or forgot including myself since it was the first time doing that and I ve only watched the video, but people were very positive and helpful and at the end we beat it just fine, it only took us a while to get everything down so even though we had a number of wipes people show things were improving so there was no reason to abandon so we continued.

That in my opinion is how a good game experience is meant to be, the game isn’t a job, and the funny thing is this entire post is coming from a person who is pretty self absorbed because if I ever fail and die I actually hope the group wipes so I get a 2nd chance to do well, but if the group wipes because of someone else I am not fussed at all because it means I get to try and even more since I get more used to the encounter and if I manage to somehow perfect everything it means I am helping the group more than most so we can easily do it even if some people are underperforming and that is also a pretty good feeling.

I never had this attitude of ‘everyone should be on my level’, especially since all content including high end content allows for a pretty decent gap for errors/underperformance which becomes even bigger if you have even a few good players with you

[LittleImp]

Why do people act as if explaining a mechanic that was failed is gonna get them banned? I myself had to explain mechanics when I show some people have issues with it without targeting or attacking anyone, saying things like ‘try to avoid stacking lightning because it hurts a lot” or “try have markers placed in X so there’s a safe place on the ground Y’, those don’t target or insult anyone but simply inform them of what went wrong because it is possible for them to not be aware. This normalization of targeting a player directly is thankfully not allowed here and for good reason, not only to reduce toxicity but to also improve the community because if someone does a mistake they respond far better to reading what went wrong to someone who directly names and shames them which leads to even worse drama but tryhards don’t really care about other people to think about that.

I'm not sure why you are conflating 'Holding someone accountable' with 'Explaining mechanics'.

I am talking about instances in which people are participating in overtly malicious behavior, like intentionally AFKing or joining parties that they know they don't belong in. The latter behavior is extremely common in endgame content, and it's been made difficult to ensure that these types of people experience any kind of negative feedback. Unfortunately, the very same people willing to take advantage of others are often also those malicious enough to exploit the report system.

This has lead to an overall chilling effect on peoples willingness to call others for engaging in behavior that is much more harmful than terse words.

Yes there are people who don’t know/remember all the mechanics, and because they know pugs can have elitist jerks who behave as if everyone should have done/know the fight when it was released they are forced to lie to get in since they want to do the fight and never ask for advice because they know they might get kicked so it is easier for them to stay silent when a screw up happens and try find what went wrong themselves rather than ask someone more experienced who knows exactly what went wrong.

So, because someone is afraid they might get kicked or berated by a hypothetical toxic elitist, they intentionally lie to join a party where they know they will underperform and consequently run an extremely high risk of being the target of both of those things. You do realize that this genuinely makes no sense at all, right?

It's just kind of comes off as extremely heavy handed attempt to try to somehow blame the people being victimized in the original situation.

If you are fresh, join or make a fresh learning party. If you are on P1 Enrage, make or join a P1 clear party. There are typically an abundance of parties for all prog points of a fight in Party Finder; There is no reasonable excuse to trap a party you don't belong in.

[sauc]

It's not. You just get easily banned here so people don't talk in public.