I was issued a warning no info given. Thought our party finder issues were resolved?

[Khalithar]

Thing is, even if they are, people deserve clear notification as to WHY action is taken against them.

This is absolutely correct.

[Nothv13]

As long as people don't break the ToS doing so, they can use the PF for anything they want, this is the clarification the community reps gave. Granted spam would count as breaking the ToS.

Here is the issue though. Much of the ToS is broad and subjective. What is spam? Is emoting 5 times considered spam? How about posting a PF for an event that night? Would asking a question in chat repeatedly without a response be considered spam? The ToS is worded in such a way that yes, all of the above could be considered spam by one person and/or GM but not another person and/or GM. There is no clarity on the ToS.

[Kikoten]

Okay, I wasn't gonna weigh in, but I feel like I should mention: I got in trouble for violating ToS with coarse language in-game. I was issued a warning and told, in so many words, not to do it again. I was reported by one or more standersby in Limsa Lominsa, for repeatedly transmitting, in the public /say channel, insults to another player on a coarse level. I know that for two reasons: one, I knew someone was going to report me, but two--and this is the big one that makes me wish I could see the future back then--the GM's letter to me TOLD ME that I used coarse language that violated the FFXIV Terms of Service.

At what point did the GMs stop telling people exactly what they did wrong? Or is it because 10+ people saw what I said that the GM felt safe telling me what I did? Because there was proof? Hmmm...

[Awha]

Okay, I wasn't gonna weigh in, but I feel like I should mention: I got in trouble for violating ToS with coarse language in-game. I was issued a warning and told, in so many words, not to do it again. I was reported by one or more standersby in Limsa Lominsa, for repeatedly transmitting, in the public /say channel, insults to another player on a coarse level. I know that for two reasons: one, I knew someone was going to report me, but two--and this is the big one that makes me wish I could see the future back then--the GM's letter to me TOLD ME that I used coarse language that violated the FFXIV Terms of Service.

At what point did the GMs stop telling people exactly what they did wrong? Or is it because 10+ people saw what I said that the GM felt safe telling me what I did? Because there was proof? Hmmm...

Might just be the random nature of the GM, or with the amount of people involved with the report. I know I personally got told what I did wrong after bad mouthing and personally berating all of novice network and mentors present between two other players in novice network in German.

GM did tell me straight up what I did. Though other times I was report I just got the the rule I broke.

[SomeRandomHuman]

Okay, I wasn't gonna weigh in, but I feel like I should mention: I got in trouble for violating ToS with coarse language in-game. I was issued a warning and told, in so many words, not to do it again. I was reported by one or more standersby in Limsa Lominsa, for repeatedly transmitting, in the public /say channel, insults to another player on a coarse level. I know that for two reasons: one, I knew someone was going to report me, but two--and this is the big one that makes me wish I could see the future back then--the GM's letter to me TOLD ME that I used coarse language that violated the FFXIV Terms of Service.

At what point did the GMs stop telling people exactly what they did wrong? Or is it because 10+ people saw what I said that the GM felt safe telling me what I did? Because there was proof? Hmmm...

You got lucky and got the one and only GM that actually tells you then. Any time I've ever dealt with a GM be it for reporting someone or having been reported by someone it's so vague that the dense fogs in mor dhona seems crystal clear.

[ItMe]

At what point did the GMs stop telling people exactly what they did wrong? Or is it because 10+ people saw what I said that the GM felt safe telling me what I did? Because there was proof? Hmmm...

It's pretty inconsistent, and as I understand it the GMs get pretty broad instructions, so it might just be up to GMs discretion.

[Aldora]

Okay, I wasn't gonna weigh in, but I feel like I should mention: I got in trouble for violating ToS with coarse language in-game. I was issued a warning and told, in so many words, not to do it again. I was reported by one or more standersby in Limsa Lominsa, for repeatedly transmitting, in the public /say channel, insults to another player on a coarse level. I know that for two reasons: one, I knew someone was going to report me, but two--and this is the big one that makes me wish I could see the future back then--the GM's letter to me TOLD ME that I used coarse language that violated the FFXIV Terms of Service.

At what point did the GMs stop telling people exactly what they did wrong? Or is it because 10+ people saw what I said that the GM felt safe telling me what I did? Because there was proof? Hmmm...

The way i see it, is that the GM's have ranks (based on experience and how long they have filled the position within the team). The "Seniors" will be able to give a more insight into the violation, while the "Juniors" follow a script where they inform you that you've violated the terms of service and that the actual reason will me mailed to you. Customer Support Desks (like the one i'm working for) usually follow this route, so that the juniors can process as many "entry level" violations as possible, while the seniors handle the cases that require more attention. As the player base grows, you will need additional GM's to handle cases like this. These GM's will have to go through (communication / protocol) training and work their way up the ladder, before they are allowed to do/say more.

If i read the chat messages in the screenshots posted earlier, it looked like one of the "juniors" handling the case where they would follow a specific protocol to inform that the player has violated the Terms of Service, but can't give (mostly due to policy/permissions) any additional information. It doesn't even have to be about the whole "RP PF" thing, but that people have reported the player for something entirely different (like use "profanity" while being in a Duty Instance).

From my professional point of view; If a general statement (that said player has violated the Terms of Service) isn't sufficient and asks for details as to why they are being pulled to the "jail" for it, i would also expect them to be honest to the player and tell them that it was "due to the use of profanity in instanced content". That alone should be enough for the player and additional information could be sent via email.

But, this is not about GM's "lying" or being on a "RP PF witch hunt", but my view on the issue and it could be improved. I, for one, would love to have a talk with a GM and have a good / civil conversation about how these cases are handled by them, maybe even share experiences. I mean, in the end we're all players who want to enjoy playing FFXIV.

[Vaern]

It's really hard to believe GMs would be giving warning/strikes just because one person simply doesn't like you and a report based on nothing is ground for punishment.
I've been reported more than once and for arguably valid reasons and never got a single warning or any kind of punishment. And I know most players don't even know what a warning is because they just keep in line. Also recent events have shown that people wrongfully striked have been cleared.

So you say that 18+ doesn't mean ERP, and while that may be true for some of you for others it can also be a way to disguise ERP.
Now take it from an outsider perspective :
- ERP => pretty explicit
- 18+ => seems suggestive that ERP could happen

I'm afraid people want a line to be drawn in the sand to better fool around it to be honest.
Anyway, don't advertise adult content to an audience partly underaged. That seems to be the problem.

[Jijifli]

I'm afraid people want a line to be drawn in the sand to better fool around it to be honest.
Anyway, don't advertise adult content to an audience partly underaged. That seems to be the problem.

I guess we should also ban any 18+ FC's that are recruiting then. After all, they put 18+ in their description, so it must be that they're just a bunch of sweaty dudes wanting to share their porn over discord.

(If it wasn't obvious, no, that's not true at all.)

[Awha]

I guess we should also ban any 18+ FC's that are recruiting then. After all, they put 18+ in their description, so it must be that they're just a bunch of sweaty dudes wanting to share their porn over discord.

(If it wasn't obvious, no, that's not true at all.)

TBH if they went that route and gave everyone warning first first for the 18+ thing like what happened to the OP in the other thread then I do not think many would be annoyed by it.