"Serious" Bard 6.0 predicted/suggested kit

[Dogempire]

Some skills I don’t even have on my bars because they serve no purpose (i.e., Leg Graze, Foot Graze, Repelling Shot). Head Graze I shift around on and off my hotbar based on if a fight even needs it—which is none this expansion (in terms of Savage fights).

I thought in E8S you needed head graze to interrupt the earthen adds

[CKNovel]

I thought in E8S you needed head graze to interrupt the earthen adds

E8S is the only place where you actually need 2 silences. During the add phase, West group.
The tanks can also do it but that's the only case where there's 2 silence to do in a short window of time and only 1 tank is available.

Early in the tier (Week 1-2) that phase was harder, but past week 3 you could obliterate the Earthen Add before it could finish its cast.
In short, only E8S needed it but only if you lacked good gear.

[SweetPete]

Since little to do in ffxiv until next patch I decided to try out BDO (Black Desert Online) of course I decided to play the Shai job since it’s a support class. I must say that it’s amazing. A true bard class. Using different instruments to apply buffs and debuffs. I just scream at the fact that SE doesn’t want their bard to be support heavy because they want to keep every job viable in raid setting. I just hope in 6.0 they take the feedback we’ve been pouring out about better bard support and don’t keep giving us ranger type abilities. We honestly don’t need anymore.

[Cetonis]

Since little to do in ffxiv until next patch I decided to try out BDO (Black Desert Online) of course I decided to play the Shai job since it’s a support class. I must say that it’s amazing. A true bard class. Using different instruments to apply buffs and debuffs. I just scream at the fact that SE doesn’t want their bard to be support heavy because they want to keep every job viable in raid setting. I just hope in 6.0 they take the feedback we’ve been pouring out about better bard support and don’t keep giving us ranger type abilities. We honestly don’t need anymore.

First of all, that's a good goal. Every time a job is just-bad (see: early ShB Bard, early HW Astro etc) SE gets a big angry mess on their hands.

Secondly, half of every group is comprised of jobs that trade off significant damage in order to do things that are useful for group play. They're called tanks and healers.

Maybe in another timeline Bard could have been a healer, but that's not where we are. Bard is a dps, is not going to stop being one, nor should it.

But, that doesn't mean SE can't design a support package into it that feels more meaningful than what we have now. And it doesn't even need to be that large numerically.

Sure there's room to get closer to Dancer, but the most important thing is that the support skills feel good to use. Not just passive things that barely move the needle, or basic 3m cds with no visual that are basically just mirrors of stuff other jobs do.

[ForteNightshade]

Since little to do in ffxiv until next patch I decided to try out BDO (Black Desert Online) of course I decided to play the Shai job since it’s a support class. I must say that it’s amazing. A true bard class. Using different instruments to apply buffs and debuffs. I just scream at the fact that SE doesn’t want their bard to be support heavy because they want to keep every job viable in raid setting. I just hope in 6.0 they take the feedback we’ve been pouring out about better bard support and don’t keep giving us ranger type abilities. We honestly don’t need anymore.

The problem is they have to keep every job both viable and competitive for raiding otherwise it will be locked out of parties. We saw this in 5.0, where Ninja was locked out because of how hilariously weak its damage output was. Astro was looking to go in that direction simply due to its poor healing. Hell, the entire physical range role had a real danger of being booted out entirely had they not buffed them enough to keep up in 5.1.

With that said, they absolutely could go a route where Bard leans more heavily towards its support. Or rather, returns to the hybrid nature that once complimented the job. My big issue with Shadowbringers Bard is it's a Bard in name only. I like the Ranger aspects they've woven in throughout the job's history but this go around they seemingly went out of their way to deemphasize everything that made Bard the hybrid it once was. Part of that is this strange belief only one job can be support focused in the role, though I suspect it had more to do with the massive power creep Bard had in previous expansions. You'll notice they've been especially weary of even touching Scholar and Warrior, who both dominated the meta for years. Ninja likely only saw love because they flubbed it up so badly at release, they had no choice.

[SweetPete]

First of all, that's a good goal. Every time a job is just-bad (see: early ShB Bard, early HW Astro etc) SE gets a big angry mess on their hands.

Secondly, half of every group is comprised of jobs that trade off significant damage in order to do things that are useful for group play. They're called tanks and healers.

Maybe in another timeline Bard could have been a healer, but that's not where we are. Bard is a dps, is not going to stop being one, nor should it.

But, that doesn't mean SE can't design a support package into it that feels more meaningful than what we have now. And it doesn't even need to be that large numerically.

Sure there's room to get closer to Dancer, but the most important thing is that the support skills feel good to use. Not just passive things that barely move the needle, or basic 3m cds with no visual that are basically just mirrors of stuff other jobs do.

Yeah I understand that. I know it will never be heavily support because all jobs need to stay viable but at the end of the day they just wrecked it so much. When 5.0 released it had zero party support. Why even call it a bard? I think there is a balance they can get with the ranged physical as w whole to still keep them all viable and not just destroy a job like they did bard. It was only because of the intense backlash they gave bard the negligible support it has now. I just want some support that actually shows I’m supporting my team like dancer does.

[Rika007]

My big issue with Shadowbringers Bard is it's a Bard in name only. I like the Ranger aspects they've woven in throughout the job's history but this go around they seemingly went out of their way to deemphasize everything that made Bard the hybrid it once was. Part of that is this strange belief only one job can be support focused in the role, though I suspect it had more to do with the massive power creep Bard had in previous expansions.

IMO of course but to me it's pretty clear it was a mix of both. They flat out stated the saw Bard now as the 'middle ground' between Machinist and Dancer in terms of it's support abilities, full well knowing that they had just axed over half of Bard's unique support kit while giving a superior support kit to Dancer. They then gave the passive songs back, even though the majority of Bard player feedback was for Foe's requiem to return as that was an ability that at least required an input of some kind. Anyone could read between the lines and see that it was mainly to make sure Bard didn't infringe on the shiny new toy in Dancer.

As for the meta and balance side of that, to me it was just an incorrect read, thinking that Bard was the lynchpin of the synergy meta, rather than the primary beneficiary. Ninja kept Trick, Dragoon kept Littany and tether, Scholar kept stratagem, AST cards got reworked but was given a full new ability in divination to makeup for the loss of spread, summoner kept devotion. Bard on the other hand got its signature ability Foe's axed entirely, lost it's crit buffing passive songs (then got weaker versions of them back), lost refresh and palisade, and had troubadour simplified and passed off to the other two ranged. Speaking as a Bard who didn't have a Scholar or Dragoon in their party, Bard's damage was far more middle of the road when neither of those two were present. Just removing the crit synergy from DoTs and the piercing debuff entirely would have been more then enough of a change.

[SweetPete]

[QUOTE=Rika007;5520423]IMO of course but to me it's pretty clear it was a mix of both. They flat out stated the saw Bard now as the 'middle ground' between Machinist and Dancer in terms of it's support abilities, full well knowing that they had just axed over half of Bard's unique support kit while giving a superior support kit to Dancer. They then gave the passive songs back, even though the majority of Bard player feedback was for Foe's requiem to return as that was an ability that at least required an input of some kind. Anyone could read between the lines and see that it was mainly to make sure Bard didn't infringe on the shiny new toy in Dancer.

Here’s to hoping Bard makes somewhat of a return in a good way in Endwalker. SE asked for more feedback on bard this current entire expansion and we’ve given them more than enough. No more excuses SE. Correct your wrong and fix bard.

[Jirah]

[QUOTE=SweetPete;5520462]

IMO of course but to me it's pretty clear it was a mix of both. They flat out stated the saw Bard now as the 'middle ground' between Machinist and Dancer in terms of it's support abilities, full well knowing that they had just axed over half of Bard's unique support kit while giving a superior support kit to Dancer. They then gave the passive songs back, even though the majority of Bard player feedback was for Foe's requiem to return as that was an ability that at least required an input of some kind. Anyone could read between the lines and see that it was mainly to make sure Bard didn't infringe on the shiny new toy in Dancer.

Here’s to hoping Bard makes somewhat of a return in a good way in Endwalker. SE asked for more feedback on bard this current entire expansion and we’ve given them more than enough. No more excuses SE. Correct your wrong and fix bard.

depends who they listen too, BRD purists hated the changes but people that never cared about the job want it to be as boring and one note as its cousins MCH and DNC which i DONT recommend. SE has a thing with cutting jobs for the dimwitted to enjoy and BRD is the last good ranged job and the suggestions from these ppl scare me like removing songs, removing dots and making a rotation for BRD to removing skills because its too busy.

[Jirah]

Yeah I understand that. I know it will never be heavily support because all jobs need to stay viable but at the end of the day they just wrecked it so much. When 5.0 released it had zero party support. Why even call it a bard? I think there is a balance they can get with the ranged physical as w whole to still keep them all viable and not just destroy a job like they did bard. It was only because of the intense backlash they gave bard the negligible support it has now. I just want some support that actually shows I’m supporting my team like dancer does.

passive huh in that definition DNC isnt very good either since most of its support is routine lets stop wishing all jobs to be this bland ass singularity and have their own identities