"Serious" Bard 6.0 predicted/suggested kit

[Jirah]

The people complaining about it aren't the same people who loved the job in SB. The complainers were either not playing in SB, playing other jobs, or playing Bard thinking "it's a support, my damage doesn't matter" or something (while also not pressing Foe Requiem).

Machinist being a mess kind of took the public perception hit, hard for anyone to claim Bard was tough when be-perfect-or-else Machinist was right there waving its arms.

And it's not that there isn't a tracking burden / learning curve, it's just that people don't expect to need to practice or learn stuff (to operate on a base level anyway) after trying MCH or DNC.

This begs the question though. Should BRD be slimed down to cater to a population that never cared for it like MCH has done? Or try to make what it has more coherent and organic with its support and its kit without making it overpowered. We all know which option gets the most attention and is easier to do

[gumas]

i wish they remove one of the "bite" skill, just one dot skill is enough i say (with increase potency to make up for it obviously), i think bard is the only dps class that has 2 dot skill? and just me or apex arrow feels like suppose to be "upgrade" version of pitch perfect before the dev is like "hmm nah lets make these 2 a separate skill instead"

also shadowbite should spread the bite dot to everyone else if it hit the target that has the dot, i was so happy i though i can do that only it turn out it just the aoe version of sidewinder lol

[Dogempire]

Tell me about it. Bards support is so bad right now. I will not be happy if square says bards issue is being to busy. That’s not the issue. The issue is the support needs to match that of dancers. If not just call the job ranger and remove bard from the game. So tired of SE acting completely out of touch with players when they know bard was the support job and they stripped it in favor of dancer when it was released. Then have the nerve to say they don’t know what else to do with bard to make players happy. This is a load of mess and they know it. Give bards their support back.

Tbf dancer isn't even that good of a support dps, I might change my tune if ranged jobs were the only dps with raidwide mitigation skills, but many of the support aspects of dancer like Dance Partner, Tech Step, Shield Samba, and Healing Waltz don't really mean much because other jobs have similar skills (Dragoon tether, Trick Attack, Addle, Mantra) and aren't gimped for personal dps like Dancer is because of those skills.

Only reason dancer is meta is because of tech step and dance partner, but even highly optimized groups that make good use of dancer's buffs still don't do enough with it to boost it past RDM, the lowest of the non-ranged dps jobs.

SE really needs to think long and hard about how to make ranged stand out from other dps roles aside from the tired old buff damage or reduce damage taken skills, because if it wasn't for the 1% stats buff the role brought, a lot of groups would probably just not include the role entirely.

[SweetPete]

Tbf dancer isn't even that good of a support dps, I might change my tune if ranged jobs were the only dps with raidwide mitigation skills, but many of the support aspects of dancer like Dance Partner, Tech Step, Shield Samba, and Healing Waltz don't really mean much because other jobs have similar skills (Dragoon tether, Trick Attack, Addle, Mantra) and aren't gimped for personal dps like Dancer is because of those skills.

Only reason dancer is meta is because of tech step and dance partner, but even highly optimized groups that make good use of dancer's buffs still don't do enough with it to boost it past RDM, the lowest of the non-ranged dps jobs.

SE really needs to think long and hard about how to make ranged stand out from other dps roles aside from the tired old buff damage or reduce damage taken skills, because if it wasn't for the 1% stats buff the role brought, a lot of groups would probably just not include the role entirely.

Yeah you have a strong point to be honest. The ranged being the supposed support role need allot more to offer. The only ranged physical that has a heal is dancer. None of them can raise, restore mp, I mean they do nothing ground breaking. Although I love the idea behind dance partner and buffing that way. That was a good idea on SE's part. Bard though just doesn't bring anything worthwhile for support. Not to mention when 5.0 started they had stripped bard of all of its support. They only gave it back because of the backlash and it's super nerfed. I'm trying to have hope they will do bard justice in 6.0 but I just don't see it. I think they will give bards nothing but more ranger type abilities and again look past the songs as if they don't even exist. I bet dancer gets a new support dance though.

[Rika007]

i wish they remove one of the "bite" skill, just one dot skill is enough i say (with increase potency to make up for it obviously), i think bard is the only dps class that has 2 dot skill? and just me or apex arrow feels like suppose to be "upgrade" version of pitch perfect before the dev is like "hmm nah lets make these 2 a separate skill instead"

also shadowbite should spread the bite dot to everyone else if it hit the target that has the dot, i was so happy i though i can do that only it turn out it just the aoe version of sidewinder lol

Summoner has two DOTS as well, and please for the love of god no do not take away the DoTs from Bard. Bard's rotation is already been pruned of so much of it's skill expression, we do not need another one to be taken away, we already lost Flame Arrow. Some classes are DoT classes, and everything in Bard's DPS identity is based on DoTs that proc repertoire. Iron Jaws already assists with the management of DoTs. If there is anything about Bard that doesn't need to be changed, it's the DoTs.

[Cetonis]

Gonna have to disagree there, not everyone wants to play whack a mole with rng procs, and there needs to be a healthy choice in ranged playstyles other than play the piano but with different weapons and different colored skills.

Of course. I didn't mean to say 'more like Bard' in terms of exactly having lots of random oGCDs lighting up.

The comment was originally replying someone who said Bard had too much to pay attention to. But I think all the ranged should have attention-demanding rotations, since we don't have the natural concerns that other jobs have. There are plenty of ways to do that besides randomly timed procs.

Yet instead, Machinist is about as complex as a tank kit, if even - and comparing it to any melee is just laughable. MCH's gauge and GCD management should be *at least* as complex as Samurai's, for instance, if it's going to have that sort of kit. There's no justification for it not to be. And Dancer is not much better.

Note, while I wouldn't change core elements of Bard that lead to "lots to track", I am advocating for addressing some of the higher-pressure elements (BL proc overwrites, PP expiration, EA, Muse stuff). And I think/hope that in turn they can add a little complexity back, so long as it takes a more "fair" form than some of the aforementioned.

[Cithaerias_pyropina]

I want HW's magic archer bowmage Bard back. Yes, I am being quite serious. You don't know what you have until it's gone.

Either that or take dynamite and annihilate Bard's job stone and make Archer change into Ranger/Hunter and have Ranger/Hunter keep Bard's DoT rotation and build on that and have Bard be an entirely different job that actually uses music and instruments to attack. Rift's bard best mmo bard. But we all know it is far too late for that.

I would like a pseudo-mage Bard. Bloodletter upgrade (make it music related) with multiple charges, RoD upgrade (make it music related) with charges, Barrage makes next weaponskill also instant cast, Army's Paean completely reworked into a different ability entirely that allows weaponskills to be used with no cast time for X duration, Wanderer's Minuet gaining Army's Paean's direct hit buff along with the crit buff (or not), Shadowbite reworked into a DoT spreader like Bane and learned at lvl 60 alongside Sidewinder, replace Quick Nock with Wide Volley, Battle Voice changed to fully fill Soul Voice gauge once or twice over it's 20 second duration along with the 20% DH buff it has (or instantly fill Soul Voice once), I do not know how useful Nature's Minne's effect in savage content (or any content) is but that ability could be changed into a radial AoE dps cooldown and renamed _____ Cadenza (I just want Bard to have at least one musical themed damaging radial AoE).

Bard is suffering from button bloat so I do not see any new actions, aside from upgrade traits and a ST version of Apex Arrow, being added in 6.0. It's easier to convert preexisting actions into new actions than to add even more and Bard has quite a few preexisting actions that can turn into completely new actions without adding more buttons. Nature's Minne, Troubador, and Warden's Paean are on the chopping block as there is very likely a low chance the devs will expend the effort to rework Bard's dps rotation or dps abilties and weaponskills. I know some Bard's do like those three abilities but they are the most likely to be cut.

Cutting one song from the song rotation eases the song transition and allows for a new mechanic to be added alongside it, be it a complete rework to Soul Voice or another new mechanic. And on Soul Voice that mechanic has the capability of becoming something that changes abilities or weaponskills into more powerful versions of them. At 100 Soul Voice, Quick Nock/Wide Volley could turn into Apex Arrow. 100 Soul Voice turns Refulgent Arrow into a single target version of Apex Arrow. 100 Soul Voice could allow for the use of a support-like Soul Voice expender. As Quick Nock/Wide Volley and Apex Arrow would share keys as well as Refulgent Arrow and ST Apex Arrow, this would enable the introduction of that new support ability without adding bloat.

[Rika007]

I want HW's magic archer bowmage Bard back. Yes, I am being quite serious. You don't know what you have until it's gone.

I know there is a good minority of Bard players who do miss Bow mage, but the chances of this happening are less than 1%. They would have to walk back the MCH rework and put MCH back to its original state and ammo work (which would make some happy, seeing as MCH was at its most popular after it's first buffs in HW, because it was built with cast times in mind). They'd have to conceptually rework Bard at it's core, because the reason Bow Mage was hated by the majority of the Bard player base was because it was shoehorned in to the rotation with no thought to how it fit. And dancer would require a massive rework for cast times to be fit in as well. Simply put, it's not happening. The player base would lose their collective minds.

Either that or take dynamite and annihilate Bard's job stone and make Archer change into Ranger/Hunter and have Ranger/Hunter keep Bard's DoT rotation and build on that and have Bard be an entirely different job that actually uses music and instruments to attack. Rift's bard best mmo bard. But we all know it is far too late for that.

Also just no chance whatsoever of happening. The one thing SE is huge on when it comes to this game is the Lore. Removing Bard from the bow would mean walking back the entire lore of the job, and every piece of material that has been put out for XIV that bard was in. The encyclopedia Eorzea's. All the job quests. Promotional art. Redoing every bow weapon in the game that had a harp on it. Just not happening.

Bard is suffering from button bloat so I do not see any new actions, aside from upgrade traits and a ST version of Apex Arrow, being added in 6.0.

This is news to me, and if true then EVERY job in the game is suffering from button bloat. As Bard is on the low side when it comes to buttons not only for DPS, but all roles in general. it only has 24 individual actions, just 3 more then their range counterparts, and much less then some of the melees, casters, healers and tanks in this game.

Cutting one song from the song rotation eases the song transition and allows for a new mechanic to be added alongside it, be it a complete rework to Soul Voice or another new mechanic. And on Soul Voice that mechanic has the capability of becoming something that changes abilities or weaponskills into more powerful versions of them. At 100 Soul Voice, Quick Nock/Wide Volley could turn into Apex Arrow. 100 Soul Voice turns Refulgent Arrow into a single target version of Apex Arrow. 100 Soul Voice could allow for the use of a support-like Soul Voice expender. As Quick Nock/Wide Volley and Apex Arrow would share keys as well as Refulgent Arrow and ST Apex Arrow, this would enable the introduction of that new support ability without adding bloat.

Don't agree with merging certain of these actions but removing a song from the rotation is one I wouldn't mind at all, as Bard's 80-90 second rotation is very awkward to line up with raid buffs.

[Jirah]

I dont have any major hang ups on BRD, Im aware of the camps ya know the SB mains who are annoyed their skills got gimped and or removed and the crit/percent changes to the repertoire, and the people that never liked BRD and thinks its too busy compared to the incredibly bland and lax DNC and MCH cousins which are not great standards for ranged dps. Despite this BRD plays the same to me givin a few less skills like Foes and Straight arrow gauge and abit more fun to Aoe with Apex and Shadow bite. Whatver EW brings better be overall improvements no ranged right now needs any less skills as none of them have severe skill bloat since most of BRD and MCH skills are just shallow ass upgrades parading itself as new ie Heated 1-2-3/Burst/Rook.

in the end BRD needs to be more fun and it is and if you dont like it dont hope it gets malformed to please you theres 9 other DPS you can try not all jobs should be identical and be accessible they are 9 different flavors to deal damage not all bland ass vanilla

[HyoMinPark]

Bard is suffering from button bloat so I do not see any new actions, aside from upgrade traits and a ST version of Apex Arrow, being added in 6.0. It's easier to convert preexisting actions into new actions than to add even more and Bard has quite a few preexisting actions that can turn into completely new actions without adding more buttons. Nature's Minne, Troubador, and Warden's Paean are on the chopping block as there is very likely a low chance the devs will expend the effort to rework Bard's dps rotation or dps abilties and weaponskills. I know some Bard's do like those three abilities but they are the most likely to be cut.

While I’m perfectly fine with all jobs just getting traits to upgrade abilities into stronger ones versus adding new ones entirely...BRD absolutely does not have button bloat. I have all actions on basically 1 1/2 crossbars. That’s effectively ~24 buttons. I have extra space on the other half of my second crossbar so I have 3 Nature’s Minne macros there (one for MT, one for OT, one for the SCH in my group since they like to deploy Adlo off themselves). This is in addition to the non-macro’d Minne I also have on there. And I still have spots left over.

Some skills I don’t even have on my bars because they serve no purpose (i.e., Leg Graze, Foot Graze, Repelling Shot). Head Graze I shift around on and off my hotbar based on if a fight even needs it—which is none this expansion (in terms of Savage fights).