ROYAL RUBY • NIGHTCLUB • BEHEMOTH/PRIMAL

[SturmChurro]

Bards playing music are pretending to be musicians This is a game and games are all about playing pretend in some form.

I disagree. Bards actually have a built in music feature, so they can actually play music - if they had the skill. As an example, "Night Club" RP would make more sense if this game was Second Life or IMVU, etc, in my opinion.

Many of these type of "venues" are designed to actually make Gil, for "services". ERP, and non-ERP. That is why many of them are advertising, especially the ERP ones.

[NanaWiloh]

I disagree. Bards actually have a built in music feature, so they can actually play music - if they had the skill. As an example, "Night Club" RP would make more sense if this game was Second Life or IMVU, etc, in my opinion.

Many of these type of "venues" are designed to actually make Gil, for "services". ERP, and non-ERP. That is why many of them are advertising, especially the ERP ones.

Real skill belongs to the players who have translated music for the music system. Not every bard playing music wrote the music or even knows how to translate it over, some are just copying the work of others. After a quick search on FF14 bard music found that there is a program that will play musical pieces for you. So goes without saying there are true musicians and those that pretend to have skill when they truly dont.

Side note finding the program confirmed what I thought about a five bard group on Behemoth months back. They put on a awesome show but it was clear that it was Multi-Boxer and no way they were controlling all five manually.

[Saefinn]

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NGL the paying of gil for the services is suspect. Whilst I get paying real gil could add more to the immersion, but 10,000 for a steak is steep. With it being seeming to be real gil, they're gonna make bank. Most venues I see in the RP world only charge pretend gil, I run a tavern with my FC and we at most charge 200gil for something and that's pretend gil & from what I've seen is about average.

I figure a nightclub may have a space if inspired by something like the place in Eulmore or something that fits in the game world, but on this one? I suspect you're right about it. And I am surprised people pay that much because I'm not seeing anything on their website that would give a hook over any of the many free venues out there.

And I guess to answer your earlier question. Really, it varies, there's a diversity in the type of RPers and why they RP and why tavern-type RP can be useful and appealing.

I guess I can break it down to 4 basic types (and probably oversimplifying it):
- People who RP because they like to write, they find the game world interesting and it's a collaborative form of writing for them where they develop characters, write plots and so on.
- People who like the game world and try some kind of pseudo-tabletop experience and it'd be like playing Dungeons and Dragons, maybe with their own simplified ruleset for combat
- People who enjoy the social aspect
- People who self insert and their character is an avatar of themselves in that world.

I can give my perspective at least (as they will vary), I consider myself the first. I love the game's lore, I love writing and I love Final Fantasy in general and this exists as a creative outlet.

I like the social aspect too and you make friends doing it. And I blur into the second point when running plots because you need a system to resolve situation situations especially combat. Though the approach I use is less tabletop inspired but more I'll write combat based on certain mechanics and the reward/outcome is based on how characters react to those mechanics and I will throw in extra points for creativity.

There's other aspects to enjoy. The tavern concept is a good place to meet other players, see how well your characters meld. But it can also be slice-of-life and character development can happen in these social interactions. And the "slice-of-life" genre has a following, so you'll have people who will RP it. You'll find RP for every kind of genre.

You also get people who RP entertainers, which will show up at taverns and other social events, one of my characters is one. But people do some cool stuff with it, we of course know about the bard performance feature, which is one avenue. There's people who write whole dance routines to music. People who write songs in time to music. There's storytellers (which is something I do) and even plays & some of those plays are well done given the tools available.

[LianaThorne]

NGL the paying of gil for the services is suspect. Whilst I get paying real gil could add more to the immersion, but 10,000 for a steak is steep. With it being seeming to be real gil, they're gonna make bank. Most venues I see in the RP world only charge pretend gil, I run a tavern with my FC and we at most charge 200gil for something and that's pretend gil & from what I've seen is about average.

Kind of tangenting a little but while we're talking about paying in gil while at RP venues, I personally have never been to one that DOESN'T make you pay with real gil. If "free" venues exist, they are few and far between. I've seen prices ranging from 3k-500k+ for certain services (not including ERP cause that's a whole other beast). I consider myself to be well off in the game and don't mind spreading the gil around, but asking for 500k for unlimited fake drinks for the night is robbery. Just being honest.

I also feel that a lot of people are getting into running venues because of how much gil people do make if their venue is popular, like without even having any love for roleplay at all. It's kind of sad/gross in my opinion to profit off a community you don't even recognize yourself as part of. But that's just my take on it.

[Saefinn]

Kind of tangenting a little but while we're talking about paying in gil while at RP venues, I personally have never been to one that DOESN'T make you pay with real gil. If "free" venues exist, they are few and far between. I've seen prices ranging from 3k-500k+ for certain services (not including ERP cause that's a whole other beast). I consider myself to be well off in the game and don't mind spreading the gil around, but asking for 500k for unlimited fake drinks for the night is robbery. Just being honest.

I also feel that a lot of people are getting into running venues because of how much gil people do make if their venue is popular, like without even having any love for roleplay at all. It's kind of sad/gross in my opinion to profit off a community you don't even recognize yourself as part of. But that's just my take on it.

I see you're on Aether and OP is on Primal. This could explain it. I'm on Crystal and Crystal houses Balmung, which has always been the "defacto" RP server (except back in 1.0 when it was Besaid before it merged) and it has spread out to other servers on the data center like Mateus and Zalera. So the core of the RP community is here. Which I guess means you're much more likely to find venues who do it for the sake of RP.

My guess then is people on other data centres realised you can make money off of RP venues? Which makes me wonder if it's legit RP too, because it sounds like RP as a means to an end.

But this may explain why in the space of the last year or so we've been seeing more people trying to pay us real gil at our FC's tavern night, we ended up putting a disclaimer on our menu. It makes me wonder then if there are some that charge on my data centre too.

But I agree, it's robbery. Heck, 300k for a chance to win a mogstation item feels steep to me. I can understand maybe paying something for a chance to win.

However, every one that I've attended in all my years on Balmung I've never been charged for a drink with real gil. I suppose if people figure out you can make money, there's somebody out there to exploit it and it's harder to exploit on a server/datacentre where there's people already doing it for free because they're in it for the RP.
But again, I can understand an immersion thing, but I'd maybe expect up to 500gil max so that's it an inconsequential amount. But 5k for an apple juice, 10k for a steak, 500k all you can drink. It's a bit much.

[LianaThorne]

However, every one that I've attended in all my years on Balmung I've never been charged for a drink with real gil. I suppose if people figure out you can make money, there's somebody out there to exploit it and it's harder to exploit on a server/datacentre where there's people already doing it for free because they're in it for the RP.

Yeahhhhhhhh, Aether's RP scene is full on "pay real gil or get out". Actually had someone that used to be a friend tell me his FC wanted to open an RP venue solely for the purpose of making easy gil because his members were too lazy to make it any other way. Most likely gonna involve ERP in it because, of course. As far as I know of they haven't opened yet but are in the midst of getting their estate ready. It's just...*sigh*.

[Saefinn]

Yeahhhhhhhh, Aether's RP scene is full on "pay real gil or get out". Actually had someone that used to be a friend tell me his FC wanted to open an RP venue solely for the purpose of making easy gil because his members were too lazy to make it any other way. Most likely gonna involve ERP in it because, of course. As far as I know of they haven't opened yet but are in the midst of getting their estate ready. It's just...*sigh*.

Oh jeez, that sounds dire then, it can't be very good RP if people see it as a lazy way to make money. Makes sense how I saw some people compare RP ads in the PF to gil & content run sellers. I mean, I knew that people selling ERP was a thing.

My "lazy" method is map parties. It's easy money when you've got a group of you.

[Keramory]

Yeahhhhhhhh, Aether's RP scene is full on "pay real gil or get out". Actually had someone that used to be a friend tell me his FC wanted to open an RP venue solely for the purpose of making easy gil because his members were too lazy to make it any other way. Most likely gonna involve ERP in it because, of course. As far as I know of they haven't opened yet but are in the midst of getting their estate ready. It's just...*sigh*.

Old man here, so I don't know if this is an okay question for 2021, but does anyone who ERP ever question exactly this? That probably the cat girl in a swimsuit dancing is just some dude behind the monitor trying to get quick cash? Does that bother people? After several nights of spending alone time with the Au'ra named Candy, how would you feel if one day you just get a message of "Btw my name's Frank". Do you then question things about yourself? Just seems like opening yourself up to some weird times.

[Saefinn]

Old man here, so I don't know if this is an okay question for 2021, but does anyone who ERP ever question exactly this? That probably the cat girl in a swimsuit dancing is just some dude behind the monitor trying to get quick cash? Does that bother people? After several nights of spending alone time with the Au'ra named Candy, how would you feel if one day you just get a message of "Btw my name's Frank". Do you then question things about yourself? Just seems like opening yourself up to some weird times.

There's more than one type of ERPer. What you're thinking of would be on the cybersex end of things, where both parties are playing an avatar of themselves, so they're making the connection with the play. But I guess it would be more like it is with internet dating, if you're getting intimate with somebody you expect them to be honest, but people aren't always and is why cat fishing on dating sites is a thing.
But it's not all cybersex. Generally when it comes to roleplay, whether ERP or regular RP a lot of people will have divide between themselves and their character, because they're writing a character and not inserting themselves into a character (I realise my phrasing here is unfortunate) by which point it's more like writing & reading erotica.

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As you claim "the highest immersive experience", I feel like that opens me up to be more nitpicky, as a lore conscious RPer who not only runs a venue, but attends many, sees people's IC prices and has been a very active member for years.

I feel like how pricing is approached would reduce the immersive experience. They feel really high for Eorzean standards. The most expensive steak you can buy from a vendor is less than 500gil.

I get that kobe beef can be extremely expensive. But it's not kobe beef you're selling, it's dzo steak you're selling. Kobe beef is expensive because of how the cows are bred and raised. Dzo are free roaming and live in abundance on the Azim steppe and they're huge animals with a lot of meat. They're not an expensive animal, else the Xaela of the Azim steppe would be rich.

But you're doing 5 star Gourmet, so it'd be fair to price it higher. Looking online, I can get one for £40 at one of Gordon Ramsay's restaurants. A local restaurant to me sells steak for £12. So I'd probably expect your mark up to be closer to what a Gordan Ramsay restaurant would serve or other pricey restaurants, as opposed to kobe beef prices.


And taking it a step further, it requires real gil. The issue with that, hypothetically speak, what if I was playing a filthy rich character who buys the everybody at the bar a drink? But as a player I only have 50,000 gil? I am restricted as to what I can do.

So you can see why this feels very alien and suspect and maybe even exploitative to me.

I feel like going by other people's experiences listed here that your market research is based on other RP venues seeing RP as a means to make money. It's your prerogative, but it feels wrong to me to turn RP into a means of making bank instead of doing it for the RP. And on a data centre or server where it seems there's not a lot compared to say, Balmung, it feels exploitative. I'd probably encourage any serious RPers on those data centres to come to Crystal. We have lots of venues where people offer great immersive experiences without charging.