Do you think after Endwalker there will be time travel?

[Iscah]

I really like the Echo as a plot device. I don't like the whole we're 8/14th of an Ascian and the bestest at everything. I mean, I wouldn't like it if we'd continue like that. It's time we become at least somewhat normal again.

9/14 in fact, due to merging with Ardbert's soul - but the thing is, everyone in the Source is 8/14. Conversely, inhabitants of the First are not noticably weak or insubstantial despite being only 1/14.

We were bestest at everything long before we got the extra soul fragment.

[MicahZerrshia]

I really like the Echo as a plot device. I don't like the whole we're 8/14th of an Ascian and the bestest at everything. I mean, I wouldn't like it if we'd continue like that. It's time we become at least somewhat normal again.

It's a faulty one though. I mean how many times have the baddies had an open opportunity to just stick a sword in our chest while we were having an echo vision and not a single one took advantage. Also, especially in the beginning of the game when we first meet the scions, we fall completely unconscious and the scions are like "he passed out, /shrug, guess I will continue to look at this rock" instead of providing the minimum of aid. Which is also how we know, amongst other things like ppl actually acknowledging they waited while we were having a vision, that time actually passes where we are likely sitting their blank faced, staring into nothingness.

We also only see relevant and specific information that is important to the plot at that moment and with what we can learn from the echo we should have enough of the syndicate to rule Ul'dah ourselves if we wanted and really should have seen things like the end of 2.55 coming well in advance with all the various ppl who were in on the plot. So while it is good for exposition, it really is a bad plot device in and of itself.

That's one of the big things that has always bothered me about this game.

[Cabalabob]

You need to separate narrative from gameplay imo. Narrative wise do you really think the WoL would be a master of close to 30 different professions/fighting styles? I never have, I suspend my disbelief and chalk it up to 'gameplay'.

Most of our combat knowledge comes from the soul Crystal, we haven’t actually mastered these styles we’re just borrowing the memories of the people who have. The only skills that are our own are the class skills and anything from machinist since we are the one putting our memories into that soul Crystal.

I think where narrative and gameplay get a bit skewed is in enemy “power levels” like we’re supposed to believe that Zenos is stronger than Bahamut? Or that it takes 24 people to beat Acheron but only 4 to beat Zenos?

And the whole fractured soul thing seems very iffy in the first place from both story and gameplay perspectives. Ranjit is only 1/14 of a soul but he’s stronger than all of the scions combined when we rescue minfillia even though anyone from the first should wipe the floor with anyone from a shard. Not to mention we as a fractured being have beaten unsundered beings like lahabrea and that was when we still had the training wheels on.

[Payadopa]

We also only see relevant and specific information that is important to the plot at that moment and with what we can learn from the echo we should have enough of the syndicate to rule Ul'dah ourselves if we wanted and really should have seen things like the end of 2.55 coming well in advance with all the various ppl who were in on the plot. So while it is good for exposition, it really is a bad plot device in and of itself.

That's one of the big things that has always bothered me about this game.

Oh, yeah. I totally agree. I'm not saying it's good writing. It's a Final Fantasy game at the end of the day and FF sure loves their Deus Ex Machina moments. I still think it's a fun 'ability', though. I like that it's being expanded upon like in Bozja.

And as far as gameplay and story working together in tandem are concerned, for me good games do merge both for the sake of not creating too much narrative dissonance.
And we will be running errands as a player who wants to do side quests anyway. But I find it increasingly silly that a demigod does it. Even the characters in-universe joke about it, so the writers are obviously aware. /shrug
And characters also joke about us being able to be every class, too. It's nice they acknowledge it, don't get me wrong.

I just think it would be a good opportunity to tone that all down so you can ramp it up again. But how are you gonna do that if you're already pretty much omnipotent? With dragons from space, maybe. lol I dunno. Just a feeling.

[Payadopa]

9/14 in fact, due to merging with Ardbert's soul - but the thing is, everyone in the Source is 8/14. Conversely, inhabitants of the First are not noticably weak or insubstantial despite being only 1/14.

We were bestest at everything long before we got the extra soul fragment.

To be fair, I already took Ardbert into account. I thought we had 7 calamities + Ardbert. Guess I missed one. /think
The 13th maybe?

[LineageRazor]

To be fair, I already took Ardbert into account. I thought we had 7 calamities + Ardbert. Guess I missed one. /think
The 13th maybe?

The one you missed was the Source.

Source soul + 7x calamity soul + Ardbert soul = 9 soul fragments.

[Takamorisan]

Regarding OP I hope not, Timetravel is a story mechanism that always ruins whatever story it touch.

[Enkidoh]

Most of our combat knowledge comes from the soul Crystal, we haven’t actually mastered these styles we’re just borrowing the memories of the people who have. The only skills that are our own are the class skills and anything from machinist since we are the one putting our memories into that soul Crystal.

Yes and no. The Soul Crystal does act as a skill repository from past practioners of that Discipline that a user can draw skills quickly from, but you're also creating skills yourself as you go along, which are then recorded in the Soul Crystal, via a process similar to attuning to an aetheryte. And MCH and BLU's Soul Crystals you are literally creating everything from scratch then and there, given both Jobs have been made virtually from out of whole cloth unlike other Jobs that are just Disciplines that had been lost, forgotten, were foreign and unknown in Eorzea or made illegal.

MCH is the WoL testing Stephanivien's new theories of aetheromachinestry derived from Garlean magitek that he melded with a few Limsan musketry techniques (from the strictly controlled/forbidden Discipline of Musketeer), while BLU was actually a fake Job (but based on a real one from the New World) peddled by a con artist that we actually made completely functional, much to his relief, given the Limsan authorities were circling.

So the WoL is not just 'drawing on older techniques', they're actually adding new ones they make up themselves, and other NPC practioners of the Jobs are shown doing the same thing, making use of skills and spells we have no access to (and never will). Most of our combat knowledge and skill just comes from plain old determination and a bountiful reserve of personal aether, something the Soul Crystals only enhance and amplify (that the Echo and the Blessing of Light enhance even further).

[Cabalabob]

Yes and no. The Soul Crystal does act as a skill repository from past practioners of that Discipline that a user can draw skills quickly from, but you're also creating skills yourself as you go along, which are then recorded in the Soul Crystal, via a process similar to attuning to an aetheryte. And MCH and BLU's Soul Crystals you are literally creating everything from scratch then and there, given both Jobs have been made virtually from out of whole cloth unlike other Jobs that are just Disciplines that had been lost, forgotten, were foreign and unknown in Eorzea or made illegal.

MCH is the WoL testing Stephanivien's new theories of aetheromachinestry derived from Garlean magitek that he melded with a few Limsan musketry techniques (from the strictly controlled/forbidden Discipline of Musketeer), while BLU was actually a fake Job (but based on a real one from the New World) peddled by a con artist that we actually made completely functional, much to his relief, given the Limsan authorities were circling.

So the WoL is not just 'drawing on older techniques', they're actually adding new ones they make up themselves, and other NPC practioners of the Jobs are shown doing the same thing, making use of skills and spells we have no access to (and never will). Most of our combat knowledge and skill just comes from plain old determination and a bountiful reserve of personal aether, something the Soul Crystals only enhance and amplify (that the Echo and the Blessing of Light enhance even further).

Yes we’re adapting the fighting style but we’re building it on a foundation that we don’t actually know. This becomes abundantly clear if you unequip your soul Crystal. You can see that, for example, as a gladiator all we know is our 1-2-3 combo, total eclipse, fight or flight, shield bash, shield lob, iron will, sentinel and circle of scorn. These are the only skills that we properly know, everything else comes from the soul Crystal and without it you simply can’t do them anymore, even skills that realistically there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to as a gladiator, like goring blade.

Again this could be taken as the lines between narrative and gameplay becoming skewed since they simply abandoned classes as an idea so they don’t update the base classes anymore. But it does make sense from a lore perspective since as lanadra says, it’s hard to imagine we mastered all these fighting styles, it makes more sense that we’re using the soul crystals to cheat.

It’s also interesting to think that the soul Crystal is actually hurting our growth, since we’re no longer developing our own skills and instead are becoming dependant on this lump of rock. If we were to ever lose it or have it taken from us we’d have nothing. Kind of like what they did with midgarsormr locking away our blessing of light.

[Iscah]

It’s also interesting to think that the soul Crystal is actually hurting our growth, since we’re no longer developing our own skills and instead are becoming dependant on this lump of rock. If we were to ever lose it or have it taken from us we’d have nothing. Kind of like what they did with midgarsormr locking away our blessing of light.

If you chalk it up to gameplay and story segregation though, and assume that we're learning the skills for good really, I can see it working more like the skill system from FF9: skills originate from equipment, so you equip a thing and can suddenly use a new ability, take it off and lose it again - but as you use it, you eventually learn it permanently.

In the case of soul stones, you'd then continue using it to engrave all your new techniques into it as well.