NA&EU/JP Bards and non FF14 music.

[van_arn]

I would imagine that a performance in game using the in game bard instruments would be fine because you aren't playing an exact copy of the music. It would be more like a tribute band or a cover.

Covers pay royalties

that said, I'm not going to report someone playing bonetrousle; Square can deal with that themselves

[wereotter]

The rule about copyrighted music is just SE covering their behind so that if a music label complains SE can say "well we're not permitting it" to avoid a messy legal situation.

Sure you could get reported for playing copyrighted music but I doubt most players would even think of reporting it given it doesn't actually cause them any problems. You can turn performance audio off if you don't like it. I am also inclined it might be difficult for GMs to see if the music is copyrighted unless they see it live and recognise or are told what the song is. Unless their logs can easily play back music that has already been played, it might be too much work for them to investigate.

The GMs, though, don't have to check if every song being played is owned by copyright. They stated in the ToS that you can ONLY play FFXIV music, so if you're playing a song that's not a track from this game, it doesn't matter if it's public domain or even your own creation. Under the strictest reading of the rules, it's not allowed.

That being said, though, I do think you're right in that stating that anything that's not a track from this game being banned is a way of deflecting responsibility for copyright infringement over to the person playing the song rather than themselves, and gives them standing to ban a person from the game for playing copywritten music if at some point a lawsuit over it comes up.

[Nafreyu]

Think of it as a legal duty to absolve themselves of any unintended video's, branding, and association with their game and their name.

No one is that stupid to create a musical instrument capability in a game and think that the majority of it's potential users who would highly unlikely be musicians in real life, would do anything but mimic what they know or like.

Most are not songwriters, let alone original.

[Hasrat]

In fairness, depending on who you ask, there is also a perception that GMs don't give non-JP worlds quite as much thought/attention, and it can be just a bit more lawless out here. For all we know, maybe it'd turn out to be true that JP GMs would be more strict in enforcing the stated restrictions.

It could also be considered that non-JP players simply tend to be a bit more reckless with the rules, as well.

But, these observations come from having no exposure outside of NA worlds, so maybe I'm way off.

[Mikita]

Hello! Nice to meet you all!

To begin with, please let me explain the nature of this post.

I am Mana Hime from the Japanese server "Shinryu" in the ManaDC. I do translation for players events between JP and NA servers. That is to say that I help with organizing bard performance concerts. With performers from Japan and North America.

We are trying to connect both communities in our love for FF14 and music in general.
However there has been a point of contention between both communities, and I would like to ask about this from a purely official point of view.

In Japan it is very much a taboo to play non FF14 music as it is "technically against the rules." However there no such concern in NA and EU servers. We have been told many times that the GMs do not care about what songs are played. And I am wondering whether there has ever been a GM or administrator who stated this, or if it is simply assumed from bards not being banned after having played so much in big cities such as Limsa.

I do not wish to start a debate on this topic as I personally understand both opinion for or against this limitation. But I am curious is that has ever been an official response that reflected the general opinion of NA/EU players.

Thank you very much for your attention, I look forward to learning more about this topic.

Mana Hime

The rule was probably created as a blanket way to protect Square Enix from copyright infringement liability, and gives them the flexibility to enforce if/when necessary.

That said, in Japan I think the majority of the population respects authority and rules. That is why officials can simply request that restaurants close early and people avoid going out unnecessarily (with no legal teeth behind it), and most of the population will comply.

If it is a point of contention between the performers, I wouldn't try to "solve" it because you are basically dealing with a cultural issue and there is no right or wrong answer. It may be best to just leave it to individual performers to decide if they want to participate depending on the songs to be played.

[Penthea]

The GMs, though, don't have to check if every song being played is owned by copyright. They stated in the ToS that you can ONLY play FFXIV music, so if you're playing a song that's not a track from this game, it doesn't matter if it's public domain or even your own creation. Under the strictest reading of the rules, it's not allowed.

It says you can't play third party music. This could mean that a player could play their own composition given they're not a third party. Assuming the performance of said composition does not breach a contract with a label, if the player has a contract with one.

That being said, though, I do think you're right in that stating that anything that's not a track from this game being banned is a way of deflecting responsibility for copyright infringement over to the person playing the song rather than themselves, and gives them standing to ban a person from the game for playing copywritten music if at some point a lawsuit over it comes up.

SE aren't stupid, they knew people would play music from tv shows, well known bands, other games, etc. Players already name their characters after copyrighted characters from other media. The ToS is there to protect SE, and that's exactly what the entry relating to performance does. It puts the responsibility on the player to not perform copyrighted music, not on SE.

[Ceridwenae]

My understanding is that if a piece of music has fallen out of copyright and is now public domain, performances of that music as still subject to copyright - so if you play Twinkle Twinkle, Little Star SE would own the copyright to any recordings of that performance.

IIRC from my university days*, it's 70 years it has to be free and then it's public domain (at least in the UK). For venues to play music (radio, other recordings) they need a licence. For live band/musician music, another additional licence is needed. This is supposed to ensure the original composers - or their estates - get their dues. SE doesn't pay the licence fees, and probably doesn't want to get sued by Metallica or similar.

However, it's going to be pretty hard for the gms to catch people in the act of playing music, I suspect. It's going to be more of a problem if someone uploads a video of it onto a site like YouTube, however. That's where I can see it could get a bit dicey and a much greater problem if you're playing any composition not in public domain**.


*I have a degree in Pop Music & Recording, did a module on music business, but it was a little over 20 years ago and I've not kept up per se

**and even then, the old spidey sense tells me it's tricksy. Can't put my finger on it exactly at this time of night, but I suspect it's down to performer interpretation? Meh, I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole if I were the performer, anyway.

[Lukha]

In Japan it is very much a taboo to play non FF14 music as it is "technically against the rules." However there no such concern in NA and EU servers. We have been told many times that the GMs do not care about what songs are played. And I am wondering whether there has ever been a GM or administrator who stated this, or if it is simply assumed from bards not being banned after having played so much in big cities such as Limsa.

Okay, so the confusion here might stem from cultural differences resulting in different interpretations of the phrase 'technically against the rules'.

In my experience, the attitude towards this from English-speaking players is that the rule exists to protect Square Enix in the very unusual case that someone were to play a cover of a song in-game, and the original creator were to somehow find out and decide it would be worth their while to attempt to sue Square Enix for it. For the creator to do that would be pretty ridiculous, on the same level as suing someone for playing your song in their own house, really, but just in case, SE would have the legal shield of explicitly stating it was not allowed. What this also means is that they have no reason to actually punish or stop anyone unless they're given a compelling reason to; therefore, as long as you're not streaming or posting videos of people playing music SE doesn't own publically, you're safe, and someone who would choose to report you instead of minding their own business is the bad guy.

Long story short; unless it's being used to bully other players or has an effect on how the game functions, no one cares what you're doing.

On the other hand, I've heard scary things about the Japanese-speaking side of the community bullying people to extreme levels if it came to light they were breaking the rules about things like this; is there any truth to that?

[KayRadley]

As far as I can tell, the rule about playing non-FF music is pretty much just a formality. The powers in the game that be don't really seem to mind. I've seen multiple bard groups doing covers of all kinds of songs to big crowds in Limsa, and I don't think any ill has befallen them in terms of in-game sanctions.

[Vahlnir]

As far as I can tell, the rule about playing non-FF music is pretty much just a formality. The powers in the game that be don't really seem to mind. I've seen multiple bard groups doing covers of all kinds of songs to big crowds in Limsa, and I don't think any ill has befallen them in terms of in-game sanctions.

I saw someone performing "Kiss From A Rose" by Seal in Limsa a few weeks back. I chuckled and moved on with my day. I couldn't laugh too much though because I actually like that song. lol Like you said, it's probably just a formality. SE wants to cover all their bases from potential liability.