FF14 devs just keep doing your thing because my god

[KenXSSS]

I don't agree with you. It is a fair comparison. The actual premise of the OP is highlighting the differences between one dev team and the other. The XIV dev team has fire and passion for their game. The WoW dev team has zero passion for their game and you can see it in their eyes and demeanor whenever they talk about their game. Their lawyer front man can't talk his way out of this one. It is written all over his face. I also believe this issue would be much more apparent if Blizzard did live events. They do not. They hide behind pre recorded events and STILL can't manage to appear interested in their product.

Unless you've shaken the hand of every of software engineer on both teams, your argument is invalid. You are judging a team of 100+ hard-working software engineers based on the appearance of a few key lead individuals and their marketing team.

Are we calling XIV a single-player oriented game and saying that it's not a MMO am I reading this right?

No, it's an MMO, but it's a Single-Player Story-based Game first, and then a MMO second. WoW has always been MMO-first, story second. They both aim to achieve different Game Design goals and have different focuses and appeal to different player-bases.

Yeah, they’ve ascended to the highest plane of gcbtw: the “ffxiv is a visual novel” plane.

Sorry it’s def an mmo.

^ This guy is just a forum troll

[ZedxKayn]

No, it's an MMO, but it's a Single-Player Story-based Game first, and then a MMO second. WoW has always been MMO-first, story second. They both aim to achieve different Game Design goals and have different focuses and appeal to different player-bases.

According to who? The GCBTW? Sure the devs put a great amount of importance to the story but it's one of the many, many things the game has to offer. MMOs are inherently not single player, you CANNOT play XIV's story as a single player game simply because you need to use DF.

Do you know what an MMO is? A game isn't either an MMO first or MMO second, it's either an MMO or it's not.

[KenXSSS]

According to who? The GCBTW? Sure the devs put a great amount of importance to the story but it's one of the many, many things the game has to offer. MMOs are inherently not single player, you CANNOT play XIV's story as a single player game simply because you need to use DF.

Do you know what an MMO is? A game isn't either an MMO first or MMO second, it's either an MMO or it's not.

Fine. Then FFXIV isn't an MMO, it's a single-player campaign with Instanced Content you can play with other players. Like Genshin Impact or Dungeon Fighter Online. I don't really see your point.

[ZedxKayn]

Fine. Then FFXIV isn't an MMO, it's a single-player campaign with Instanced Content you can play with other players. Like Genshin Impact or Dungeon Fighter Online. I don't really see your point.

XIV is a MMO whether you like it or not lmao

You compared WoW and XIV in a way that implied that, in contrast to WoW, XIV is not a MMO, which is blatantly false, then that XIV is story first MMO second which is a terrible excuse people use to justify their lack of care towards how they treat other players in the game.

It is BOTH a FF game AND a theme park MMORPG, not one before the other. Saying that it's "story first" is incredibly dismissive of everything else the devs put work towards, especially battle content which is pretty extensive. The story is just some of the massive amount of CONTENT offered by the game whereas MMORPG is the genre the game falls into.

[KenXSSS]

XIV is a MMO whether you like it or not lmao

You compared WoW and XIV in a way that implied that, in contrast to WoW, XIV is not a MMO, which is blatantly false, then that XIV is story first MMO second which is a terrible excuse people use to justify their lack of care towards how they treat other players in the game.

It is BOTH a FF game AND a theme park MMORPG, not one before the other. Saying that it's "story first" is incredibly dismissive of everything else the devs put work towards, especially battle content which is pretty extensive. The story is just some of the massive amount of CONTENT offered by the game whereas MMORPG is the genre the game falls into.

If you wanted a serious discussion, you would not be using an alt.

And here you reveal to everybody that you haven't played modern World of Warcraft. Modern WoW is more of a single player game than FFXIV, considering you can play the entire game solo without ever having to play with other people. At least FFXIV has compulsory dungeoning, WoW doesn't even have that. It's a single player game without a story.

Now Classic WoW was definitely a multiplayer game but modern WoW has long since abandoned those game designs.

EDIT: And you have played modern WoW then your post is just deceptive. Why is a game that you can play solo, don't have to dungeon, don't have to raid, and don't have to interact with anybody at all EVER designed as an MMO first?

Also while WoW has a more convenient transmog SYSTEM, the transmog options are severely lacking. Not only is there a lack of variety, half the options look painted on and half are very low resolution and can be jarring when mixing and matching. Transmog/Glamour is something I convincingly give to FFXIV hands down considering Blizzard obviously doesn't care about transmog options.

I have 5 level 60's in SL, I think the one who hasn't played WoW is you. You can get 1-60 in Classic via Solo Mage Grinding or even questing solo and you can skip Raiding early on with green drops and crafting. In Modern you can 1-60 with Solo Questing, I don't see your point bruh

[ZedxKayn]

If you wanted a serious discussion, you would not be using an alt.

If you wanted a serious discussion, you wouldn't be dismissing other's points through ad hominems.
Give me undeniable proof that I am someone's alt or tell me what genre did SE list FFXIV as in their own online store.

[Nayout]

Depends on what you mean by casual, if you see casual as someone who doesnt touch "hard" content and does 5 year old content then yeah, you can say WoW isnt terribad for casuals but then you can say any game that has lasted for years is a great casual game, but for people who enjoy playing a game casually as an mmorpg, like gear progression and current content and a bit of everything like myself, WoW treats casuals with absolute disdain and the community is even worse in their treatment of casuals which they see as "inferior" because all that matters to fragile egos is "video game achievements".
server and off server boosters that fill trade these day...

Dude wat?
Boy, I am currently a damn casual in the Wow I have an ilvl of 210 and if I am lucky I do 3 mytics a week while I am in a group that does heroic 6 hours a week and we are already 7/12. All super relaxed without worrying or anything

We can complain that the loot system sucks but to say that you don't have "space" for being casual is a damn lie when it is simply looking for a group of people with similarities to your ideas. Those who most use the excuse of virtual egos are the first to be offended by what a group of people say about you and the first to feel attacked when they cannot be equipped to the same level as a person who has Mytic progress

And please, let's not use Torghast as an argument when those floors are totally optional in the same way that it is optional here to complete the 200 floors of Palace of the dead.
The real problem is that you try to aspire to more than you can and this is a problem with a LOT of people in Wow who try to do things that they cannot for time, because they are not good, etc, etc.

Find your SPACE in the game, stop looking at the rest and stop listening to every nonsense that a random tells you. My aspirations are to complete this tier in Heroic and get the mount of 15+ because it is something that I can do both for time and for my ability and I do not mind what the rest do. I say all this as Hunter BM, a spect with the lowest dps in the meta. Wow has a lot of balance problems for raids with some spects that affect community, last week on a 12+ the tank tried to make me switch to MM, I didn't pay attention to it we completed the dungeon and I was top DPS.

I'm old enough to remember when Heroic meant you needed a coordinated group and used CC to take down trash packs much less bosses.

The only Heroics that required CC were in BC and early in Cataclyms before all the Heroics were massively nerfed by the crying of the community when the dungeons of the trolls came out. During ALL of LK and the dungeons they introduced in Dragon Soul, no one used CC because it was a waste of time.

[Rae88]

I have 5 level 60's in SL, I think the one who hasn't played WoW is you. You can get 1-60 in Classic via Solo Mage Grinding or even questing solo and you can skip Raiding early on with green drops and crafting. In Modern you can 1-60 with Solo Questing, I don't see your point bruh

You obviously don't know what you're talking about if you're using being able to solo grind as a mage in Classic to try and say you can always complete the game solo. Try solo grinding in Classic on a Warrior. You also had to form your own groups because dungeon finder wasn't a thing, you had to form groups to protect against PvP, and you had to form groups so people wouldn't steal your mobs.

You still haven't mentioned how a game able to be played completely solo is being designed as an MMO "first" btw. The fact of the matter is if you think that modern WoW is developed as an MMO first you don't play modern WoW or you're being disingenuous. Really that simple. Blizzard abandoned their "MMO first" ideals when they shifted WoW to being the ultimate Themepark.

I'll use your example from earlier, modern WoW is an instanced based game like Genshin Impact. I would say it's multiplayer but you can skip all that so grindy lobby game without the cute girls for appeal I guess. Would that fit your definition?

[Reap00]

Unless you've shaken the hand of every of software engineer on both teams, your argument is invalid. You are judging a team of 100+ hard-working software engineers based on the appearance of a few key lead individuals and their marketing team.



No, it's an MMO, but it's a Single-Player Story-based Game first, and then a MMO second. WoW has always been MMO-first, story second. They both aim to achieve different Game Design goals and have different focuses and appeal to different player-bases.



^ This guy is just a forum troll

Thanks for the laughs man. My "argument" is based on the appearance of the people that are running that sinking ship and as a result is 100% valid.

[Rae88]

No, it's an MMO, but it's a Single-Player Story-based Game first, and then a MMO second. WoW has always been MMO-first, story second. They both aim to achieve different Game Design goals and have different focuses and appeal to different player-bases.

And here you reveal to everybody that you haven't played modern World of Warcraft. Modern WoW is more of a single player game than FFXIV, considering you can play the entire game solo without ever having to play with other people. At least FFXIV has compulsory dungeoning, WoW doesn't even have that. It's a single player game without a story.

Now Classic WoW was definitely a multiplayer game but modern WoW has long since abandoned those game designs.

EDIT: And you have played modern WoW then your post is just deceptive. Why is a game that you can play solo, don't have to dungeon, don't have to raid, and don't have to interact with anybody at all EVER designed as an MMO first?

Also while WoW has a more convenient transmog SYSTEM, the transmog options are severely lacking. Not only is there a lack of variety, half the options look painted on and half are very low resolution and can be jarring when mixing and matching. Transmog/Glamour is something I convincingly give to FFXIV hands down considering Blizzard obviously doesn't care about transmog options.