FF14 is not made for hardcore players.

[Ayuhra]

I would disagree with job rotations being "extremely" unintuitive. I think if people would read the tooltips and not be in a rush to just start battling, most would be able to figure out a decent rotation. Long rotation doesn't mean unintuitive, and fun is subjective and does not necessarily correlate with the length of the rotation. After all, if the fight is long enough, hitting 11111 and hitting 12345 are the same number of presses.

That said, I'm always in favor of less unique buttons, not for intuition's sake, but for convenience's sake, but not make the buttons change too much in midfight like in PVP.

Pattern is also a simple way to make people learn about a fight. The problem isn't the pattern, it's that you sometimes need to read the tooltips for buffs and debuffs or NPC/enemy text to understand what the mechanic is or what to do unless you already have someone who knows and can tell you. So, here, I would say it can be unintuitive if you don't read all the information about the fight.

Buttons need to be trimmed down in this game by at least a lot. A good place to start is consolidating buttons that have no business being separate because they're already mutually exclusive abilities (for example Blizzard IV/Fire IV on BLM or Summon/Enkindle on SMN)

And I maintain that patterns are overused in FFXIV. If you know the fight well it feels easy but if you don't it's frustrating. It's probably not something I'm doing a good job explaining. I guess maybe it's that FFXIV pve is more proactive (know where to be) while, say, WoW is more reactive (respond to the unexpected and get yourself back into the fight). Obviously there are reactive mechanics in FFXIV and proactive ones in WoW but in general they each lean heavily on proactive pattern recognition and reactive chaos.

I personally prefer pve in WoW, it seems more accessible and definitely has a lower skill floor but a waaay higher ceiling with the people at the top being part of a world wide esport. That said, FFXIV's rotations in WoW would make WoW impossible. I'm imagining doing the summoner rotation on heroic Jaina and it's making my eyes cross.

[linayar]

Buttons need to be trimmed down in this game by at least a lot. A good place to start is consolidating buttons that have no business being separate because they're already mutually exclusive abilities (for example Blizzard IV/Fire IV on BLM or Summon/Enkindle on SMN)

Agreed only if they're not commonly used. For the typical 1-2-3 combo, I would hate to be on the same button because it's clearer for me if they're on separate buttons. Summon/Enkindle should be on the same button, B/F4 I don't remember as I haven't played BLM in a long time.

And I maintain that patterns are overused in FFXIV. If you know the fight well it feels easy but if you don't it's frustrating. It's probably not something I'm doing a good job explaining. I guess maybe it's that FFXIV pve is more proactive (know where to be) while, say, WoW is more reactive (respond to the unexpected and get yourself back into the fight). Obviously there are reactive mechanics in FFXIV and proactive ones in WoW but in general they each lean heavily on proactive pattern recognition and reactive chaos.

I personally prefer pve in WoW, it seems more accessible and definitely has a lower skill floor but a waaay higher ceiling with the people at the top being part of a world wide esport. That said, FFXIV's rotations in WoW would make WoW impossible. I'm imagining doing the summoner rotation on heroic Jaina and it's making my eyes cross.

See, this shows that difficulty is also subjective. I actively play both games, and I find WoW's "reactive" gameplay to be harder to get into than FFXIV. I don't play at the high end on either, so I can't say what would be harder for me as both are too hard. But at the low end, FFXIV is definitely way easier. The only reason why I could even get into WoW was because I could make do with using less buttons and I don't need to move as much in some fights.

[Ravenblade1979]

Discussion needs to end. Its started by a troll who doesn't know nor wants to learn what his tanks cooldowns are lol

[Ayuhra]

Agreed only if they're not commonly used. For the typical 1-2-3 combo, I would hate to be on the same button because it's clearer for me if they're on separate buttons. Summon/Enkindle should be on the same button, B/F4 I don't remember as I haven't played BLM in a long time.

Blizzard IV is only usable while under Umbral Ice, Fire IV only while in Astral Fire. They are on separate buttons but if you are able to use one you are not able to use the other.

See, this shows that difficulty is also subjective. I actively play both games, and I find WoW's "reactive" gameplay to be harder to get into than FFXIV. I don't play at the high end on either, so I can't say what would be harder for me as both are too hard. But at the low end, FFXIV is definitely way easier. The only reason why I could even get into WoW was because I could make do with using less buttons and I don't need to move as much in some fights.

I am pretty confident of my ability in WoW. I used to do some heroic and mythic raiding and stopped because of the insane time commitment, not because I doubted I could handle it.

Meanwhile in FFXIV Dancer treats me well but other than that my in game life story has been "I'll do the thing! *fail* *fail* *fail*"

Discussion needs to end. Its started by a troll who doesn't know nor wants to learn what his tanks cooldowns are lol

Eeeh, you can argue whether or not the OP made this thread in good faith but I think the conversation about expectations in PUG content is one worth having. Especially since nasty attitudes at the end of Heavensward were a contributing factor to me sitting out Stormblood (that and WoW: Legion was happening and I was mostly there)

[DPZ2]

Agreed only if they're not commonly used. For the typical 1-2-3 combo, I would hate to be on the same button because it's clearer for me if they're on separate buttons.

The other reason the 1-2-3 combo is not on a rotation with the same button ... if you miss the enemy once, you are going to go through one or two GCDs doing minimal damage, as the miss does not count for the DPS proc bonus.

This is a lot worse for melee classes. Dragoon, monk, paladin and gunbreaker all have at least two combos that use the same starting attack.

[BeautyAstrologian]

（。々°） Um... What! | (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) What does this... even say!! (×_×#)

Someone explain...?? ⤜(XᗩX)⤏

[Jin-]

（。々°） Um... What! | (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) What does this... even say!! (×_×#)

Someone explain...?? ⤜(XᗩX)⤏

Welcome back Militaryvet / Titanman.

Can you make another of these megathreads. To get the discussion and drama going on. I wish to read these when I'm on the break xD

[van_arn]

Discussion needs to end. Its started by a troll who doesn't know nor wants to learn what his tanks cooldowns are lol

I thought something made my cringedar tingle when I saw the tangential powerpoint chart.

op needs to git gud

[Payadopa]

I don't understand why we can't have options. Or rather options that aren't easy and very easy. It's usually mildly challenging -> nerf. 90% of the game is like that. I'm still hoping for a Duty Roulette min ilvl. These are fun.

[Ammokkx]

（。々°） Um... What! | (• ◡•)| (❍ᴥ❍ʋ) What does this... even say!! (×_×#)

Someone explain...?? ⤜(XᗩX)⤏

Goddamnit I thought this one was banned