Famitsu Interview: Tuning encounters for healing

[Satarn]

You guys do realize that same/similar words can mean different things depending on the context and field they're used in, right? Many acronyms sound like words that mean something totally different. Languages also evolve constantly and words gain completely new meanings due to slangs and such. The brought up acronym is generally what people refer to when they use the word in the context of MMOs and it has little to do with for example act of metagaming in tabletop rpgs, just like an MMO "tank" can have absolutely nothing to do with an armored war vehicle. It might've been a backronym originally, but it doesn't change that that's what it is used as these days.

Anyways meaning was the point here, not etymology which is rather off-topic. Regardless of what you want to argue the word comes from, the meta is not affected by what a healer's dps kit looks like, but rather what said kit's overall output is and people asking for more complexity are doing so due to concern with engagement, not effectiveness.

[Ultimatecalibur]

You guys do realize that same/similar words can mean different things depending on the context and field they're used in, right? Many acronyms sound like words that mean something totally different. Languages also evolve constantly and words gain completely new meanings due to slangs and such. The brought up acronym is generally what people refer to when they use the word in the context of MMOs and it has little to do with for example act of metagaming in tabletop rpgs, just like an MMO "tank" can have absolutely nothing to do with an armored war vehicle. It might've been a backronym originally, but it doesn't change that that's what it is used as these days.

Wrong. The term "Meta" is directly referring to metagaming. A Meta comp is short for the metagame optimal composition. Those whom have confused it for the backcronym are mimic things they hear from knowledgeable individuals without understand what they are talking about and often using the term properly in an unintentionally manner. The term "tank" is also a direct reference to the armored combat vehicle as the classes/jobs of that role are mimicing the battlefield effects of that class of vehicles. Ranged DpS (casters and physical) are sometimes called "artillery" for similar reasons.

Anyways meaning was the point here, not etymology which is rather off-topic. Regardless of what you want to argue the word comes from, the meta is not affected by what a healer's dps kit looks like, but rather what said kit's overall output is and people asking for more complexity are doing so due to concern with engagement, not effectiveness.

Actually the meta can and is influenced by what a healer's kit looks like. Classes, Jobs and Characters all shift around metagame tier lists based on relative complexity and output. In many cases choices that theoretically will have higher output will be considered low tier in the metagame due to having a relative complexity that is far higher that the alternatives for little to no gain.

[Absurdity]

Actually the meta can and is influenced by what a healer's kit looks like. Classes, Jobs and Characters all shift around metagame tier lists based on relative complexity and output. In many cases choices that theoretically will have higher output will be considered low tier in the metagame due to having a relative complexity that is far higher that the alternatives for little to no gain.

This would be the case if one of the healers were more complex for little to no gain, from what I've seen however people are asking for all healers to be more complex, not just 1 or 2.
It also depends heavily on how we define "little gain". A difference of 500 dps, roughly the difference between a warrior's dps and gnb/pld, is arguably not much but both gnb and pld are part of the meta comp for speedruns and warrior is...well, not.

[Ultimatecalibur]

This would be the case if one of the healers were more complex for little to no gain, from what I've seen however people are asking for all healers to be more complex, not just 1 or 2.
It also depends heavily on how we define "little gain".

That was more a metapoint about the metagame. As an example, a theoretic class that required you to keep 5 plates with different slow down rates constantly spinning would end up lower on a tier list than one that only required you to regularly toss and catch a ball 1 handed if the different difficulty causes output on the first class to vary between 90% and 110% the second's theoretical while the second only varies between 95% and 100% it's theoretical at similar player skill levels.

A difference of 500 dps, roughly the difference between a warrior's dps and gnb/pld, is arguably not much but both gnb and pld are part of the meta comp for speedruns and warrior is...well, not.

All 4 tanks have a similar complexity so the lower performing tanks end up lower on the meta tier list. Similarly, if they had varying difficulty but similar outputs the difficult jobs would end up lower on the list.

[Absurdity]

All 4 tanks have a similar complexity so the lower performing tanks end up lower on the meta tier list. Similarly, if they had varying difficulty but similar outputs the difficult jobs would end up lower on the list.

I wish that were the case. Warrior is simply significantly less complex than either Paladin or Gunbreaker, can't say much about Dark Knight since I tend to forget about it just as frequently as SE does. Those 500 dps and WAR's burst being on a 90 second timer are more likely the cause that it isn't very high on the tier list.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I wish that were the case. Warrior is simply significantly less complex than either Paladin or Gunbreaker, can't say much about Dark Knight since I tend to forget about it just as frequently as SE does. Those 500 dps and WAR's burst being on a 90 second timer are more likely the cause that it isn't very high on the tier list.

PLD and GNB both have fairly simple and stable base rotations on rough 60s timers. Their optimized rotations might be more complex with Atonement and Burst Strike shifting, but at their core they are similar in complexity to WAR and DRK's buff+Gauge management. The superior party synergy of the 60s rotations is a major factor in both GNB and PLD's slightly superior output, but none of the tanks are significantly more or less complex than any other tank.

[Absurdity]

PLD and GNB both have fairly simple and stable base rotations on rough 60s timers. Their optimized rotations might be more complex with Atonement and Burst Strike shifting, but at their core they are similar in complexity to WAR and DRK's buff+Gauge management. The superior party synergy of the 60s rotations is a major factor in both GNB and PLD's slightly superior output, but none of the tanks are significantly more or less complex than any other tank.

Since I was talking about meta comps for speedrunning (just as an example) I'm of course talking about optimized play. If you just play all tanks at a very basic "just keep pressing buttons" kind of level they're not only similar but you're most likely gonna see better performance on warrior than on all the others, because there are fewer parts to warrior that one could mess up.

[currentlemon]

I wish that were the case. Warrior is simply significantly less complex than either Paladin or Gunbreaker, can't say much about Dark Knight since I tend to forget about it just as frequently as SE does. Those 500 dps and WAR's burst being on a 90 second timer are more likely the cause that it isn't very high on the tier list.

You're not missing much on Dark Knight. It's basically a WAR clone with "Darkness" as its defining feature. You can thank SE for that after the changes they made to the job in 5.x Delirium and Inner Release are basically the same thing. The only thing that truly separates both jobs is DRK's TBN skill.