Lets Talk ARR Content Revival: Coil

[Vyrerus]

The biggest problem with the Coils raid series is a lack of a normal mode.

The Coils only ever had normal mode, until they decided to put in Savage Second Coil which is the only series in the set that has a Savage option.

[Kaurhz]

The Coils only ever had normal mode, until they decided to put in Savage Second Coil which is the only series in the set that has a Savage option.

Honestly, with the way coils worked back then, the normal mode back then was essentially Extreme/Savage-tier difficulty, with the actual SCoB (Savage) probably being somewhere just above current day savages

[Vyrerus]

Honestly, with the way coils worked back then, the normal mode back then was essentially Extreme/Savage-tier difficulty, with the actual SCoB (Savage) probably being somewhere just above current day savages

Yes and no. It was a different time with a different playerbase. There weren't any standards for the raid, other than you had to have defeated Titan Hard Mode and then unlocked it. For the most part with each tier, the first 3 fights were easy to figure out and to beat. Only the last fight of each raid tier really had any teeth, particularly Turns 5 and 9.

The mechanics were more obtuse than today's Savage, but they were also largely more forgiving. DPS checks were also fairly lenient, you were more likely to die to the cavalcade of mechanics than you were to ever see an enrage. And this was before things like The Balance Discord... or even Discord.

Honestly, most of coil is like one step above a normal mode raid by today's standards, but they aren't essentially Savage. There were a lot of fights where you could delegate responsibility to just 3 or so people, and have them handle all of the actual mechanics, while everybody else just performs their role. A ton of people got carried through the coils, even while they were current content.

[MicahZerrshia]

snip

Agreed. I think a lot of us just have...what's the opposite of rose colored glasses, when it comes to coil, because back then it was difficult. But compared to todays 8 mans, its a walk in the park. People even struggled with Titan hard back then too and used to buy wins for their relic steps, yet it is now mechanically nothing compared to even something we now see as simple as Twintania or Hades nm. The playerbase has just adapted and changed and now we see things as too easy that would have been too hard back in 2013.

When our first FC group went through coil we had a married couple that consisted of one of the worst healers I have ever encountered and a bard that if they were a bard in real life would have tripped over their bow and snapped it clean in half they were so incompetent, but we still made it through just fine and let them stay since they were friends (or I thought they were, they left the fc the moment they got the final coil win). In today's savage fights, I would have booted them from our group.

[ItMe]

Honestly, with the way coils worked back then, the normal mode back then was essentially Extreme/Savage-tier difficulty, with the actual SCoB (Savage) probably being somewhere just above current day savages

Not with how cheeseable a lot of those fights are.
For example, my friend showed me a vid where if you spin Nael real fast she's unable to actually do her mechanics (fun fact that works on Amon in Syrcus Tower too).

[Kaurhz]

Not with how cheeseable a lot of those fights are.
For example, my friend showed me a vid where if you spin Nael real fast she's unable to actually do her mechanics (fun fact that works on Amon in Syrcus Tower too).

Sure if your intention is to cheese strat it then that's an entirely different story but how about doing that at Level 50, and on every single encounter for a good 11 minutes straight versus at Lv60 with 4 people at +120 above the Item Level cap for the game at the time. Or even executing the mechanics in the way that the developers intended for you to do so, a completely different story then. My point still stands that mechanically these fights were quite easily a cut above normal mode, and as I said, Extreme/Savage, so somewhere between, but I guess this largely comes down to subjectivity than anything. In normal mode, I can queue up and be done within 1-3 wipes at most on any given Eden encounter. Comparatively, coils, even T5 back when I did it nearing the end of ARR was mostly party disbands with people not baiting Divebombs appropriately, nor handling Dreadnaughts, or avoiding Twisters/overlapping them. To a degree, the same reigns true even today with a lot of PF parties on Blue Mage. It took quite a while for people to stop getting divebombed into the wall, see the Twister cast and move around, or burst down dreadnaughts before they decided to wreck people.

[ItMe]

Sure if your intention is to cheese strat it then that's an entirely different story but how about doing that at Level 50, and on every single encounter for a good 11 minutes straight versus at Lv60 with 4 people at +120 above the Item Level cap for the game at the time. Or even executing the mechanics in the way that the developers intended for you to do so, a completely different story then. My point still stands that mechanically these fights were quite easily a cut above normal mode, and as I said, Extreme/Savage, so somewhere between, but I guess this largely comes down to subjectivity than anything. In normal mode, I can queue up and be done within 1-3 wipes at most on any given Eden encounter. Comparatively, coils, even T5 back when I did it nearing the end of ARR was mostly party disbands with people not baiting Divebombs appropriately, nor handling Dreadnaughts, or avoiding Twisters/overlapping them. To a degree, the same reigns true even today with a lot of PF parties on Blue Mage. It took quite a while for people to stop getting divebombed into the wall, see the Twister cast and move around, or burst down dreadnaughts before they decided to wreck people.

This is very true, though my point was that they're not really above current savage content when the option to severely cheese them exists.
All I was trying to convey is that many of them are only challenging if you let them be.

[Kaurhz]

This is very true, though my point was that they're not really above current savage content when the option to severely cheese them exists.
All I was trying to convey is that many of them are only challenging if you let them be.

If we wanted to get into specifics then cheese mechanics have existed for a long time, granted just not as glaringly obvious as the spin strat, but this strat 'should' exist for nigh on every single boss, it's just variable how difficult or easy it is to pull off.. Exists quite extensively in Palace, but that's different content. But again, normal being between Extreme/Savage, something I didn't really adequately convey in my original post, with Savage SCoB stacking quite well all things considered.. I'm just not willing to readily accept them being in-line with current normal mode, considering the presence of enrages, albeit perhaps lenient; something that pretty much doesn't exist in Normal mode, mechanics are also somewhat egregious with a lot of them potentially leading to instagib, and several times thereover in a single fight, something which you scarce see in current normal mode content. I can quite easily go into any Normal mode encounter of any tier between Gordias and Eden's Verse normal, even when they were current.. But a LOT more complications would arise with doing Coils, different times, different players sure, but the ability of the general populace has gone largely unchanged.

Though I'm not particularly sure why I'm fussed or arguing the point considering I'm wholly in support of them reviving Coils. I just wanted to argue the point that I don't believe Coils is Normal mode in the same sense of our current normal modes.