Enrage Timers to Delubrium Reginae ty

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Considering the instance timer won't allow for that to be a possibility it appears you are stretching the truth friend.

Timer is 180 mins, there are 5 bosses.

Most of my runs have left roughly 120 minutes on the timer.

[Vahlnir]

I'd rather spend an hour, maybe 2, killing the bosses slow and clearing than spending the same amount of time wiping and losing mettle.

[TurtlesAWD]

An enrage for normal feels a bit like overkill, I think the 3-hit doom mechanic does enough to discourage people from the "just bring platebearer" strategy (and hopefully they opt for DPS boosts instead). Enrage timers might make the fights faster but I feel like they're gonna make the queues quite a bit longer.

[ForteNightshade]

If your goal is to encourage for Lost Action/Essence use, buffing the fragment drops would be a far more effective method. Putting enrages won't make people use them any more than it'll encourage bad players in normal to be better. Half of them probably think their damage is good enough already. Regardless, the value to commitment cost simply isn't there. People farming their relic who otherwise have zero interest in Bozja aren't going to want to spend time farming clusters or throw away gil. They just want to get in and out even if it takes an hour each time.

[Novae]

Yea, sure, great idea. And how do you force people to use essences they don't have/ can't easily farm? I ran out of Deep and normal Essences of the Aetherweaver way before my 15th run.

[Packetdancer]

Enrage has a place in Savage, which it does have if I remember correctly, so why put it in the regular version?

Delubrum Savage even has enrage on trash fights. (Side note: Savage also has trash fights between things in the first place.)

Delubrum normal actually has at least one enrage mechanic, with the Queen's Guard; the four robots begin casting a raidwide (veeeery slooowly), and if you do not destroy the four aetherial shields before those casts finish, you can apparently wipe to those raidwides. So the devs clearly aren't entirely opposed to it. But I'm inclined to agree with some posters that throwing enrages on all the fights would be overkill; I think in normal stuff it's worth saving enrage for dramatic mechanics that make narrative sense (like the four Queen's Guard resorting, in desperation, to their final ultimate attack to try to turn back the intruders, then—when that fails—falling back to defend the Queen).

Normal mode is the story mode, after all; if you have an enrage, make the enrage fit the story.

But I have seen the bosses die quickly enough in the average Delubrum run that we already aren't seeing every mechanic variation as it is, so I'm not sure enrages are really necessary. And this is with largely random PUG runs, albeit often with 5-7 of my party being people from my FC in a pre-made.

(But I grant the experience may vary from datacenter to datacenter, or that queuing with 4-6 other folks from my FC out of the 24 people in there might skew my dataset.)

[Packetdancer]

Yea, sure, great idea. And how do you force people to use essences they don't have/ can't easily farm? I ran out of Deep and normal Essences of the Aetherweaver way before my 15th run.

I understand the "x99 Potions" effect, as people refer to it—the "I can't use a potion now, what if I really need it later?!" effect when you have a finite resource—as it applies to Bozja and Delubrum, and how it keeps people from using essences. I admit, I have sometimes based what I'm playing in Delubrum normal by "what relevant essence do I have the most of, and thus can most readily afford to use" rather than actual role considerations. And the fact that I'm down to 9 Pure Essence of the Divine makes me reaaaaally nervous for Delubrum savage come Sunday. (Since in Savage, a wipe means the instance ends and you have to queue back in—thus you have to put any essences back up after each wipe.)

However, the forgotten fragments are actually not that pricy on the marketboard, at least in my datacenter; I've taken to selling stacks of the ones I know I don't need, and then using the money from those sales to turn around and buy the fragments that give me things I know I do need. So there are ways to get the ones you most need besides just Bozja-grinding for them.

(The fragments for Deep Essences and Pure Essences are, I grant, a bit pricier than the ones for normal Essences. But normal essences should be fine for Delubrum normal.)

[Shougun]

I understand the "x99 Potions" effect, as people refer to it—the "I can't use a potion now, what if I really need it later?!" effect when you have a finite resource—as it applies to Bozja and Delubrum, and how it keeps people from using essences. I admit, I have sometimes based what I'm playing in Delubrum normal by "what relevant essence do I have the most of, and thus can most readily afford to use" rather than actual role considerations. And the fact that I'm down to 9 Pure Essence of the Divine makes me reaaaaally nervous for Delubrum savage come Sunday.

However, the forgotten fragments are actually not that pricy on the marketboard, at least in my datacenter; I've taken to selling stacks of the ones I know I don't need, and then using the money from those sales to turn around and buy the fragments that give me things I know I do need. So there are ways to get the ones you most need besides just Bozja-grinding for them.

(The fragments for Deep Essences and Pure Essences are, I grant, a bit pricier than the ones for normal Essences. But normal essences should be fine for Delubrum normal.)

I know I said it before but I still think the consumable nature significantly impacts those who aren't predisposed for it, and therefore impacts the content as a whole, like not used to using potions and food for your savage / ultimate groups, to the point that simply making the actions of Eureka content either learn-able or restore-able (not simply 'repurchase-able' or 'go out and farm for a while') would improve the quality of runs for the whole content. If it was a slot that extended cooldown but made it infinite charge, or if it was DND wizard mechanics / Estus flask Dark Souls, or if it was a learning mechanic like FFIX or FFVII. Consumables are well and fine for people who are into that (and obviously is the best way to the heart of an economy wheel), but and I know you already get this too, I think the different audiences see that concept entirely differently lol. (As I've seen you talk about different types of players coming to the same content and how they're feuding over relic's place or what have you).


I'm definitely one of those who if it's consumable I will probably not use it. Potion, hi-potion, firework, etc (as long as it's not key to my survival, you best bet I'll throw a phoenix down onto a zombie boss but that's extreme gain to small loss lol). When Diablo 3 first added bottomless potions I was on that farm lol. I love the trinkets and such in WoW for the fact they don't expire on use. Or like if Witcher potions were one and done forever I'd never use them but because they were easily restore-able I'd spend loads of time going to go learn all the recipes (sort of a spell learning mechanic + estus mechanic), and I loved to use them. Conversely Planescape Numenera was all into these one and done charged artifact ideas and it just made me not want to use them because I didn't really want to lose the item. Now sometimes it just is best it does expire and not clog up inventory, there is totally a place for them, but... I'm not sold that skills is the right place for it given the wide variety of players joining into Eureka. Ultimate, sure yeah- go for it.


Or looking at it another way, how often do people save the LB till the last possible second even not using it in places where clearly you'd gain the bar back before the next boss (because they didn't know most likely, you type it in chat and some DD will be like "o rlly?" and use it asap, usually) lol.

[Themarvin]

If there is an enrage, most people won't ever clear it. In my clear of it, each and every boss took 30 minutes (even sub-bosses).

All can and will clear with this setup there is in this Relic Raid, it is not like being asked for super tight enrage mode, but a mode, so people can't just goof off, not do any damage at all and such kind of stuff, manyof the quick runs usually got multiple deaths as well, and there is good room for a carry as well, for someone who is not to good at it all as well for sure there is, but thing is alot refuse to use the resources around them to make it better and faster, and even with Castrum in Bozja being available for easier clears + rewards, and loads of just purple skills for use as well, use them... saving them wont help anything anyway.

[Packetdancer]

I know I said it before but I still think the consumable nature impacts those who aren't predisposed for it (like not used to using potions and food for your savage / ultimate groups) to the point that simply making the actions of Eureka content either learn-able or restore-able would improve the quality of runs for the whole content. If it was a slot that extended cooldown but made it infinite charge, or if it was DND wizard mechanics / Estus flask Dark Souls, or if it was a learning mechanic like FFIX or FFVII. Consumables are well and fine for people who are into that (and obviously is the best way to the heart of an economy wheel), but and I know you already get this too, I think the different audiences see that concept entirely differently lol. (As I've seen you talk about different types of players coming to the same content and how they're feuding over relic's place or what have you).

Oh, definitely. And I agree that for the normal mode stuff, asking people to use essences they may be low on is a bit unfortunate. It's not a showstopper since you can buy the items rather than having to farm them endlessly, but it still presents an obstacle to people really embracing the content; after all, where savage raiders are well-used to spending money (or for crafters, time) to obtain consumables for savage, the average player is decidedly not.

However, I think there's an easy method to handle it: just make essences last across instances.

The lost holster and what you have slotted are already persistent, obviously. Just record your last used essence, and if that essence would still be valid for what you're playing when you queue in, reapply it. Then your Deep Essence of the Aetherweaver you popped in the Southern Front while being a healer is still active when you go into Delubrum as a healer. Similarly, you can persist things like reraisers and Medkits and whatnot from session to session.

That, I think, would take a lot of the sting out of it for people. And Delubrum savage can still be a special case which clears all persistent status effects (like essences and reraisers) when you queue in, so that a wipe really costs like it does now, and presents a limiting factor on progression in there.