Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

[Kaurhz]

Take care.

If indeed Ultimate would require less development overhead, then arguably a small, collaborative team would be a lot more effective than a larger team; there comes a point in Project Management where applying too many resources to one project just oversaturates it; makes it ineffective, and arguably wastes a lot more developmental resources than anything else. There are costs and so forth to be considered when shifting around resources/people, so a lot of logistics involved with reallocating resources.

It is; that much I in fact do agree on, especially for Ultimate content. Regarding Deep Dungeon though, it's a goal in the midst for me so I have more to say about this. If we were to get a sequel on this then I would much prefer a delay if it enables them to continue this down the line with much more innovative elements rather than just a different environment with a couple of different pomanders. Arguably they've not lived up to their expectations in some areas of it, be it with Viera/Hrothgar. I can't complain or slate the dungeons because they are far more enjoyable than ever before, and the quality for me, trumps the quantity, especially when if you look in the grand scheme of things they have still been pouring their resources into other content; Ocean Fishing, and Ishgard Restoration very quickly come to mind for me! Regards for Ultimate though, COVID-19 is a cruel thing to everyone, sure they won't be able to ride that excuse extensively now, but it's damn sure currently a valid excuse all things considered. Same to you, the discussion has been.. Well, not with a brick wall, so, pleasant I guess!

[linayar]

But I am simply under the impression that SE is bullshitting, like they have been for a while now.

What do you mean by your usage of that term? I thought it's supposed to mean someone is lying. Are you saying that SE is lying about not having Ultimate ready or that their reason for it not being ready is a lie?

At any case, if you're using clear rate as a reason to develop content, then SE should just cut Ultimate and give us more dungeons per patch and ex trials in the expansion as more people would clear those over Ultimate.

[MPK]

So what you're saying is; is that content that has the largest reachability for play should always be prioritized by the developers? Because that is the precedent you're setting here, and if I'm going to give you a few numbers:

121956 Players have obtained the Gabriel mount which is from lockboxes.
55911 Players have completed Castrum Lacus Litore, which requires Rank 10.
44756 Players have completed Delubrum Normal Mode, which is considered the current endgame of Bozja.

Needless to say, the latter 2 are registered achievements which means this is only going by publicly accessible data so numbers are lower than they should be. on the other hand, Edens Promise (Savage) boasts 17068 achievement title holders, and 26447 people with the mount, probably around 64000 people have cleared (Based on a site that shall not be named). But only a fraction of these will be attempting Ultimate or clearing it for that matter, But in accordance with your own logic means they probably should've indeed prioritized Bozja over the new Ultimate, considering Ultimate not only requires the completion of it once, but several times in order to achieve BiS, but then they must complete Ultimate, which has lower completion rate than Delubrum. How do you manage to create a potentially self-defeatist argument? Honestly, it's actually impressive.

Now I don't know why you yourself are comparing Bozja statistics to that of Edens Promise (Savage) when the issue here is entirely to do with Ultimate, so you should be comparing statistics of Bozja/BA to Ultimate, not savage. Or did you realize that you don't make a very compelling argument with that comparison?

If you're going to do anything at least be productive and try to create room for valid discussion/feedback that the developers could actually take from this because this entire discussion borders on sanctimony.

1. I'm talking about bozja savage here.
2. I'm pointing out the fact that BA is failed expirment and that putting difficult content behind a casual gate is never a good idea
3. Learn how rewards work for ultimate content please.
4. I'm comparing casual vs hc content

[Jennah]

My guess:
- 98% of the population will never unlock Ultimate
- 65% of the population will never unlock Dulbrium Regae

- 99.5% of the population will never attempt Ultimate
- 98% of the population will never attempt Dulbrium Savage

I'm fine with this content basically not existing, for all practical purposes. Just angry when it is clearly costing us other, better content.

[Kaurhz]

1. I'm talking about bozja savage here.
2. I'm pointing out the fact that BA is failed expirment and that putting difficult content behind a casual gate is never a good idea
3. Learn how rewards work for ultimate content please.
4. I'm comparing casual vs hc content

1. Then you should probably wait until more than 11 days have elapsed before making a comment on it.

2. How do you figure it was a failed experiment? The only thing that seems to me that failed with it was the barrier to getting in, in the first place, and the very fact it required not only collaboration within BA, but the instance itself to ensure the FATE outside was successfully completed, in addition to not being able to queue outside of the instance, so you had to have a full set of people with the goal in mind; Ironically all things that were addressed with Delubrum; Independent of being inside of a Bozja instance, doesn't require dependencies outside of the encounters itself (see: FATE). Moot point. Hardcore, mid-core, and casual players alike participate quite extensively in Bozja and therefore are likely to have the content unlocked, so it's a non-issue. Again, 48709 people with the Ozma mount, not sure you should consider that a failure.

3. Not even relevant to the argument being made, so, Irrelevant. The argument being made here is that you are trying to justify using 1 piece of content being done over another piece of content on your own personal conjecture/feelings alone. This is fairly ignorant and sets a bad precedent for the game going forward, that they should not try to take risks, branch out and develop new content in fear of it being a failure and impeding on other current content that you enjoy. Not to mention you're failing to realize the multitude of issues that can occur behind the scenes. You don't just shuffle people and resources around without considering the costs involved, and I mean actual costs. Least of all during a pandemic. This reason won't proceed indefinitely, obviously. But as it stands nigh on everything in this regard has been perfectly reasonable

4. You will always end up on the short end of the stick with this one because casual content in the vast majority of cases is more widely accessible and therefore appeals to a much larger audience for participating. I don't dispute the popularity of Ultimate here, in fact, I love watching Ultimate prog streams. But your logic with this one is self-defeatist to your 'cause' for this in the first place. Not to mention the creating "Us versus Them" situation is utterly counterproductive and gives nothing of anything valuable for feedback on how Square can alleviate these very issues in the future. Instead of trying to create provocative and counterproductive discussion why not add something valuable to the topic going forward. Like adding repeatability to your content so that you have more to strive for aside from weekly loot. Or allowing for BLU to participate in current Ultimates with a separate achievement to boot for doing so.

Again, this entire thread has been tantamount to several people crying because they didn't get what they want without adding something reasonable to discussion or feedback for the developers.

[MPK]

1. The clear rates right now are much lower than regular savage. It's going to have a worse clear rate than BA 100%

2. That's a 24 man ALLIANCE RAID difficulty fight and yet it has a lower clear rate than SAVAGE content

3. lmao our sub money is prob being waste on ffxvi

4. It was mainly me pointing out how SE is out of touch with it's community and how SE keeps developing content aimed at casuals that casuals wont do because it's too hard for them.

[Kaurhz]

1. The clear rates right now are much lower than regular savage. It's going to have a worse clear rate than BA 100%

2. That's a 24 man ALLIANCE RAID difficulty fight and yet it has a lower clear rate than SAVAGE content

3. lmao our sub money is prob being waste on ffxvi

4. It was mainly me pointing out how SE is out of touch with it's community and how SE keeps developing content aimed at casuals that casuals wont do because it's too hard for them.

1. It has been out for 11 days, versus content that has been out for 71 days, so obviously, it is going to have a lower clear rate thus far. So it's an unfair judgment call to even make. That's like me waiting 11 days after Ultimate has released and made a judgment call of "LOL only like 3 groups have cleared". Taking aside difficulty, that is the logic you're creating here. Don't compare content that has been released for 11 days, versus content released for 71 days. Don't pass your own personal conjecture as a fact on this point.

2. See above.

3. Probably, it is a very profitable game after all.

4. Whilst I may agree with the sentiment that they can be out of touch with their community. Don't make out your own personal opinion, or the opinion of a good 300 people on Reddit as representative of the entirety of the player base. Now I beg the question, that this opinion is probably contradictory to what you may think in other circumstances. SE should be finding a middle-ground for the 'casual' players; something that will challenge them and provide the strive to get better and improve fundamentally at the game. Instead of giving something to faceroll.

[Mahoukenshi]

Nah, make bozja mandatory for MSQ and delete all ultimates.

NO. I don't want to play that major pain in the ass called Alliance Raids, no matter how easy it is, to unlock and as result be forced to do boring grinds over and over just to continue my story. Let relic content remain optional so that people who enjoy at least some of the activities can have their fun.

[MPK]

1. It has been out for 11 days, versus content that has been out for 71 days, so obviously, it is going to have a lower clear rate thus far. So it's an unfair judgment call to even make. That's like me waiting 11 days after Ultimate has released and made a judgment call of "LOL only like 3 groups have cleared". Taking aside difficulty, that is the logic you're creating here. Don't compare content that has been released for 11 days, versus content released for 71 days. Don't pass your own personal conjecture as a fact on this point.

2. See above.

3. Probably, it is a very profitable game after all.

4. Whilst I may agree with the sentiment that they can be out of touch with their community. Don't make out your own personal opinion, or the opinion of a good 300 people on Reddit as representative of the entirety of the player base. Now I beg the question, that this opinion is probably contradictory to what you may think in other circumstances. SE should be finding a middle-ground for the 'casual' players; something that will challenge them and provide the strive to get better and improve fundamentally at the game. Instead of giving something to faceroll.

1. Comparing to current current rates vs 11 days into the current savage rate. There was well over 4k clears week 2 when I checked fflogs back then.

2. Above

3. Just calling em out

4. SE needs to be called out on it

[Kaurhz]

1. Comparing to current current rates vs 11 days into the current savage rate. There was well over 4k clears week 2 when I checked fflogs back then.

2. Above

3. Just calling em out

4. SE needs to be called out on it

1. Would need something a little more compelling than "when I checked" if you want anything substantial, there's no proof to this claim. Go get your proof, show all the clears that occurred between the Tue Dec 08, 2020 - Sun Dec 20, 2020, and then I'll give you benefit of the doubt. Besides, it's not really relevant if the argument of this entire thread is essentially about Ultimate over Bozja.