Instead of cutting Ultimate from 5.5 why not cut bozja?

[Avatre]

Unreals are kind of just the same old extreme content and mechanics, like the effort to rebalance to current gear isn't that large as making a near 20-minute ultimate with modified and harder mechanics.



Titan Unreal is practically the same extreme from 2013 just with retuned hp, and some legends hadn't been in the game when it was relevant. Not exactly a comparison. legend btw is a normal meme for any death made in any content.

This is one reason why I advocate for people being required to clear something synced before they can go into it unsynced. Let them learn the mechanics, or at least see them since there are lots of people who can't learn by seeing something the first time, before being able to cheese it. A whole hell of a lot of mechanics you see in newer content was first seen in those older extremes.

[Vickii]

Don't feel too reflective about it, this topic was a self-fulfilling disaster because ultimately the crux of it comes down to an unwinnable decision on the part of Square Enix, and one that would come down as a harsh reality for whichever party that would receive the short end of the stick.

By parties you mean the hundreds of thousands of people who do Bozja and the hundreds of people who have seen an ultimate right?

There was no decision.

[MPK]

By parties you mean the hundreds of thousands of people who do Bozja and the hundreds of people who have seen an ultimate right?

There was no decision.

What a joke. The end result is going to be the same as BA. There's going to be more e12s clears than people who actually finishes bozja.

The new Bozja savage content that they wasted developer time on is going to be completed less than savage blu content. At least for savage blu achievements they didn't have to make entirely new fights.

[Kaurhz]

What a joke. The end result is going to be the same as BA. There's going to be more e12s clears than people who actually finishes bozja.

The new Bozja savage content that they wasted developer time on is going to be completed less than savage blu content. At least for savage blu achievements they didn't have to make entirely new fights.

So what you're saying is; is that content that has the largest reachability for play should always be prioritized by the developers? Because that is the precedent you're setting here, and if I'm going to give you a few numbers:

121956 Players have obtained the Gabriel mount which is from lockboxes.
55911 Players have completed Castrum Lacus Litore, which requires Rank 10.
44756 Players have completed Delubrum Normal Mode, which is considered the current endgame of Bozja.

Needless to say, the latter 2 are registered achievements which means this is only going by publicly accessible data so numbers are lower than they should be. on the other hand, Edens Promise (Savage) boasts 17068 achievement title holders, and 26447 people with the mount, probably around 64000 people have cleared (Based on a site that shall not be named). But only a fraction of these will be attempting Ultimate or clearing it for that matter, But in accordance with your own logic means they probably should've indeed prioritized Bozja over the new Ultimate, considering Ultimate not only requires the completion of it once, but several times in order to achieve BiS, but then they must complete Ultimate, which has lower completion rate than Delubrum. How do you manage to create a potentially self-defeatist argument? Honestly, it's actually impressive.

Now I don't know why you yourself are comparing Bozja statistics to that of Edens Promise (Savage) when the issue here is entirely to do with Ultimate, so you should be comparing statistics of Bozja/BA to Ultimate, not savage. Or did you realize that you don't make a very compelling argument with that comparison?

If you're going to do anything at least be productive and try to create room for valid discussion/feedback that the developers could actually take from this because this entire discussion borders on sanctimony.

[Starflake]

So what you're saying is; is that content that has the largest reachability for play should always be prioritized by the developers? Because that is the precedent you're setting here, and if I'm going to give you a few numbers:

121956 Players have obtained the Gabriel mount which is from lockboxes.
55911 Players have completed Castrum Lacus Litore, which requires Rank 10.
44756 Players have completed Delubrum Normal Mode, which is considered the current endgame of Bozja.

Needless to say, the latter 2 are registered achievements which means this is only going by publicly accessible data so numbers are lower than they should be. on the other hand, Edens Promise (Savage) boasts 17068 achievement title holders, and 26447 people with the mount, probably around 64000 people have cleared (Based on a site that shall not be named). But only a fraction of these will be attempting Ultimate or clearing it for that matter, But in accordance with your own logic means they probably should've indeed prioritized Bozja over the new Ultimate, considering Ultimate not only requires the completion of it once, but several times in order to achieve BiS, but then they must complete Ultimate, which has lower completion rate than Delubrum. How do you manage to create a potentially self-defeatist argument? Honestly, it's actually impressive.

Now I don't know why you yourself are comparing Bozja statistics to that of Edens Promise (Savage) when the issue here is entirely to do with Ultimate, so you should be comparing statistics of Bozja/BA to Ultimate, not savage. Or did you realize that you don't make a very compelling argument with that comparison?

If you're going to do anything at least be productive and try to create room for valid discussion/feedback that the developers could actually take from this because this entire discussion borders on sanctimony.

What he is saying is that at the end of the day, the clear rates for Delubrum SAVAGE, will be less than e12s. I'm cool with Normal mode, I feel they should have put resources into the Ultimate instead of Delubrum savage. That or Cut some Blue Mage savage content which is quite literally just a title you get now and has pretty low Morbol mount clear rates. Take in mind as well that if this Ultimate was released on time, people would have the remainder of this full expansion to clear. Which would most likely result in a good amount of clears in comparison to other Ultimates when they came out.

Delubrum NM considered the end game of Bozja? Stop acting like a clown.

[Kaurhz]

What he is saying is that at the end of the day, the clear rates for Delubrum SAVAGE, won't be too different from an Ultimate. I'm cool with Normal mode, I feel they should have put resources into the Ultimate instead of Delubrum savage. That or Cut some Blue Mage savage content which is quite literally just a title you get now and has pretty low Morbol mount clear rates. Take in mind as well that if this Ultimate was released on time, people would have the remainder of this full expansion to clear. Which would most likely result in a good amount of clears in comparison to other Ultimates when they came out.

Delubrum NM considered the end game of Bozja? Stop acting like a clown.

(Deleted Text; probably shouldn't visit the forums upon waking up) - This sets a very bad precedent for the game-

Let me clarify for casual players. Either way, the argument here is completely moot considering 1 piece of content has been released for 71 days (Savage), and the other has been out for 11 days so not really a baseline for a fair comparison, at all.

In any case, this entire discussion is completely counterproductive since it doesn't really yield any results or discussion that the developers can work with. This entire thread is tantamount to people just trying to defame one piece of content over another, and this works on both sides of the community, not just one. This discussion would be completely reversed if Bozja was 'dropped' instead of Ultimate, or arguably even people just saying it's been another expansion of the same nonsense; with the developers taking little to no risk in the content that they develop, and Delubrum (Savage) was just that, a risk. Besides, it's just been an unfortunate sequence of events with Covid-19, so the only real criticism here is the initial delay from 5.3 to 5.5.

[Taikugemu]

Nah, make bozja mandatory for MSQ and delete all ultimates.

[Starflake]

Close? It's going to be much lower, the rates of Promise will only be indicative of those that can unlock the content, not those that can and will attempt to clear, or actually clear; considering it requires several clears, BiS, and what is arguably a pretty intense fight. The number of people that would clear wouldn't be staggeringly above any other Ultimate in the grand scheme of things.

Let me clarify for casual players. Either way, the argument here is completely moot considering 1 piece of content has been released for 71 days (Savage), and the other has been out for 11 days so not really a baseline for a fair comparison, at all.

In any case, this entire discussion is completely counterproductive since it doesn't really yield any results or discussion that the developers can work with. This entire thread is tantamount to people just trying to defame one piece of content over another, and this works on both sides of the community, not just one. This discussion would be completely reversed if Bozja was 'dropped' instead of Ultimate, or arguably even people just saying it's been another expansion of the same nonsense; with the developers taking little to no risk in the content that they develop, and Delubrum (Savage) was just that, a risk. Besides, it's just been an unfortunate sequence of events with Covid-19, so the only real criticism here is the initial delay from 5.3 to 5.5.

The content Delubrum Savage is primarily cleared by people who have cleared Ultimate content. In both EU and NA I have seen it that pretty much all groups that cleared have parties full of them. And I am willing to wager if SE created a poll if the people would prefer an Ultimate or Delubrum Savage (while Delubrum NM stilll exists) the Ultimate would come on top. That seems to be the shared sentiment with the ultimate clearers I know. So there is definitely something to be said about that and uttering that Delubrum Savage should have been cut for Ultimate is valid.

[Kaurhz]

The content Delubrum Savage is primarily cleared by people who have cleared Ultimate content. In both EU and NA I have seen it that pretty much all groups that cleared have parties full of them. And I am willing to wager if SE created a poll if the people would prefer an Ultimate or Delubrum Savage (while Delubrum NM stilll exists) the Ultimate would come on top. That seems to be the shared sentiment with the ultimate clearers I know. So there is definitely something to be said about that and uttering that Delubrum Savage should have been cut for Ultimate is valid.

Again, 11 days have elapsed so it's a really poor basis for making any statement (Whilst I would thus far be willing to agree with that statement); there's going to be quite a bit of variance in people that do clear Delubrum Savage as time goes by, as people start adopting guides and as it becomes more viable to pug the content.

I'd much rather they didn't delay any content, and it isn't as simple as just reallocating those resources, neither of us knows how stuff is done internally so this would be entirely speculatory. If Delubrum Savage is completed and gone through QA of a team independent from that of Ultimate, then getting them up to the task with actually being able to contribute to the development of it is going to be quite an undertaking. Whether I not I agree or disagree with the sentiment is entirely different. My argument is how self-defeatist the OP comes across.

[Starflake]

Again, 11 days have elapsed so it's a really poor basis for comparison (Whilst I would thus far be willing to agree with that statement); there's going to be quite a bit of variance in people that do clear Delubrum Savage as time goes by, as people start adopting guides and as it becomes more viable to pug the content.

I'd much rather they didn't delay any content, and it isn't as simple as just reallocating those resources, neither of us knows how stuff is done internally so this would be entirely speculatory. If Delubrum Savage is completed and gone through QA of a team independent from that of Ultimate, then getting them up to task with actually being able to contribute to the development of it is going to be quite an undertaking.

I am not speaking in absolutes. I said "I am willing to wager". When I look at stuff like Delubrum Savage, parasols, Blue Mage, flying in ARR etc, it does become a question if these things were really necessary to put in and if they couldn't make way for an Ultimate. As a matter of fact, Delubrum Savage alone is enough to ask this question, no? Surely it's not that easy to recreate mechanics for a marathon of bosses and adjust their HP values based on 48 people, taking into account Haste Gear and Essences. There are also adds, there is a 1v1 in the instance. Seems to me even that Delubrum Savage takes a mighty effort, heavily contending if not more so an Ultimate. Which is basically a resuage of the bosses with adjusted HP values and amping it up. Now it isn't that simplistic. But seems to me, superficially, that in DLB Savage, you do more battling and there are in fact more things to take into account as well.

Regardless, not releasing an Ultimate in over two years and over three years for a Deep Dungeon is absolute bullshit. I'd take a Deep Dungeon over DLB Savage as well. But alright, we indeed do not know what is going on behind the scenes, who does what and where the put the resources in and why. But I am simply under the impression that SE is bullshitting, like they have been for a while now. Anyway that's me in this discussion. I'm not going to be upset about not having any decent content in this game to my own needs for over two years for much longer. Take care.