LET PEOPLE CHANGE CLASS AT THE START OF DELUBRUM

[wereotter]

you can literally buy them off the market board for gil. if you don't want to get the items and actions that increase your contribution toward the clear, PotD is an option for you.

Vote Kicking for poor contribution is also not abuse. Difference in playstyle is a valid dismissal from a party.

And this is exactly why they didn't include it. People are much more toxic in this exploratory content than any other content in the game. This content is perfectly capable if being cleared if not every person is using these items, but the fact that people like you would vote kick someone who isn't playing this content they way you want is a problem. This would be the same as vote kicking someone from a 24-man raid who is still catching up on gear because they're not contributing enough.

I'm amenable to concerns about not being able to use items you don't have as that's simply... normal, though I would like to say that farming them isn't that bad, at least the basic ones. Assuming your datacenter has any kind of capability to make an awakening fragment farming party, they come in pretty quick, were you so inclined. I understand actually getting a party for this in-game can be a struggle and not everyone wants to organize via discord (nevermind the rate at which you can get blue/green memories...)

That said I think it's worth noting that DR drops its own fragments, and if you aren't planning to use those in DR savage, well... they're not going to do anything anywhere else, so if nothing else you could start throwing some of those in your holster.

I have a bunch of those fragments, but being only level 10 mettle, I can't get them appraised. Also I'm not doing savage, just normal.

[TurtlesAWD]

Forgot about the rank requirements, though as I recall the only ones that require more than 10 should be the ones from castrum itself, which would be deep essences... lost fonts or banners as I recall, and a few of the, to be honest, "joke" actions like dynamis dice.

[Mavrias]

And this is exactly why they didn't include it. People are much more toxic in this exploratory content than any other content in the game. This content is perfectly capable if being cleared if not every person is using these items, but the fact that people like you would vote kick someone who isn't playing this content they way you want is a problem. This would be the same as vote kicking someone from a 24-man raid who is still catching up on gear because they're not contributing enough.

where did I say I would kick someone for not using essences? I kick people for being afk, being irritating in chat after being asked to stop, and literally not hitting buttons. my vote has always been for parties to settle differences via the vote kick system rather than carrying on together unhappily, as that is what ultimately its for.

while I think refusal to use essences and lost actions is refusal to fully contribute, (and those same people refusing to use actions complaining about the length of the instance are incredibly annoying) its often not worth the effort beyond asking someone to do so. however, if someone in your party is really feeling some type of way about it, they should have the option to put up a vote dismissal for it.

[Mavrias]

You'd be surprised how many people actually just click "Yes" on whatever vote is in front of them. Who says the person filling would use an essence either. Just kick everyone until you get someone who does?

I did that literally half an hour ago, when our party had 5 tanks and no healers. Also, I am pretty sure I am not doing 50% less damage than a lot of these people using an essence, I have that on good authority. Either way, an essence is not required, and while I would prefer people use essences, people shouldn't be kicked out of it. I think that is abuse of the kick feature, frankly.

kick feature is for removing players from the party if there are differences or issues that can't be resolved while continuing with that/ those player(s). why would you want to continue with a player that you're not having fun playing with, for whatever reason?

you put up a vote to see if other teammates feel the same, if so, great! if not then you can always leave.

[SturmChurro]

It does require at least rank 10 and a run of castrum to unlock, and I don't think someone will have made it to rank 10 and through castrum with 0 fragments. The quests themselves award a few, as I recall. Granted they may have fragments that aren't exactly optimal for any particular kind of loadout but if these are players who don't really care about bozja or castrum we're talking about here, they can just use anything at all and it'll help. There isn't a particular need for them to be concerned with running out or using their good stuff before they need it because they're never going to need it later.

A person who is doing Bozja just to do the relic; as a means to an end, probably isn't going to have very many useful essences. Not to mention the fact that if they are doing DR for relic farming, it won't take that many runs to completely run out of the essences people would want - DPS. They would need to go out of their way to farm or buy them off the marketboard to top themselves off each time.

I'll post this quote again, because I think this person explained it perfectly:

..Delubrum simply doesn't encourage that mentality. In fact, it arguably does the opposite. While the devs want players to experiment with lost actions, you're rewarded with practically none upon completing Delubrum itself. This pushes people to go out of their way to farm potential actions for no real benefit, or worse. It just wastes time... What makes this design worse is the relic forces you out of Bozja, thus eliminating a passive way of collecting fragments. Instead of having us spam CT for the hundredth billionth time, they could have us farm rank 3, 4, 5, S mobs.

Simply put, the cost outweighs the needed commitment. If people see Delubrum can be cleared without much or any Lost Actions, they aren't going to experiment and potentially waste actions they'll then have to spend time farming—especially if their only motivation is progressing their relic. By the time they reach Delubrum, it's more of a "I want this grind to be over with" then "Hmm, might be fun to try this out."

The devs did a horrendous job with the relic this expansion. Delubrum's lackluster rewards is one such problem.

(I made some minor cuts to it "..." to keep it relevant to this)

[Burningskull]

I think instead they should have just had role requirments. 1 Tank 2 Healer and 5 DPS. Same for Castrum if they make it able to just que into it like DR.

[SturmChurro]

I think instead they should have just had role requirments. 1 Tank 2 Healer and 5 DPS. Same for Castrum if they make it able to just que into it like DR.

Removed role restrictions is probably for future-proofing the content. People don't have to wait on queue times, or at least it wouldn't be as bad.

[Burningskull]

Removed role restrictions is probably for future-proofing the content. People don't have to wait on queue times, or at least it wouldn't be as bad.

If they wanted to future proof it they could have put it in Alliance Roulette. Just like Eureka and PotD when the new expansion comes out Bozja / DR will be just as dead as those. The only things that survive are things that are in the Roulettes. IMO anyway.

[wereotter]

If they wanted to future proof it they could have put it in Alliance Roulette. Just like Eureka and PotD when the new expansion comes out Bozja / DR will be just as dead as those. The only things that survive are things that are in the Roulettes. IMO anyway.

In theory this works... but with so many people cheesing the queue in order to make sure they get nothing harder than World of Darkness, in practice I'm not sure this would work. Prior to the relic, you could easily wait over half an hour to get into the Ivalice raids. I speak from trying to get in to get certain gear for blue mage prior to its level cap increase to level 70. Queues for Obornne Monastery would take 20-30 minutes.

Adding them into the alliance raid roulette wouldn't be a bad thing, but I'm not sure it would be enough on its own to future-proof the content.

[TurtlesAWD]

yeah I don't think they can add them to alliance raid roulette unless they either prevent people from rigging what the roulette will pop, or move everything after crystal tower raids into their own roulette (at which point people probably cheese for the heavensward raids)