People who like Bozja/Eureka, I would like your input

[ForteNightshade]

But you don’t need this relic that’s my point. It’s an optional weapon that’s on par with a savage raid weapon and only a little bit better than a tomestone weapon.

If you don’t want to do the content that it requires then just don’t do it.

The problem with the relic is they made the beginning steps far too easy and let a lot of people start it who now are upset. But if you can’t spend 10 hours or so to complete the main Bozja quest then relic grinds maybe aren’t for you. They aren’t asking you to even get the memories in there, simply they want you to complete one quest line and do two dungeons one time.

To be fair, this logic applies to literally the entire game. You don't "need" anything. That does not absolve it from criticism. The entire purpose of having alternative method this expansion was to address complains people had going from the ARR/HW grind to Eureka. Therefore, arbitrarily forcing people into Bozja if they want to continue their relic progression defeats the point of their being a second method. Adding insult to injury, this current step forces people who actually like Bozja out of it and into old content they likely don't want to run. Somehow, the dev team failed at both address the actual complaint people add and didn't satisfy either demographic. It's outright baffling how spectacularly this missed the mark.

Also those ARR/HW relics would have made you cry if you did them when they were current.

This new relic is the easiest relic grind we have ever had by far. Comparing it to years old heavily nerfed content and expecting that same level of ease is just not what relics are about.

You’ll get a chance to get it easily later on.

As someone who did the HW relic prior to any nerfs. No, it isn't. This is easily the most tedious simply because we have so few options. Yes, if you spammed ARF for ten hours, you might drive yourself mad despite its efficiency. However, you could do other things. Conversely, you could simply take your time. Neither of this is feasible with the Resistance Weapons. You're forced to do Alliance raids or pray to the RNG gods. And should you wait, you'll likely get walled by both Castrum and DR seeing less activity due to their paltry rewards. It's horribly shortsighted design.

That being said, Atmas were worse. However, they have been rightly criticised as one of the dumbest RNG grinds this game ever attempted. Since the devs never went back to drop rates that low again. At least they learned?

[LaylaTsarra]

Very unhappy with the current itineration of the requirements and just for one weapon.

It's really a big disappoint to me at this point especially since I've taken a number of alts to R15 and got them multiples of the 500 weapon for their roles. Going to be a skip this step for most of them now and seriously all the work for nothing at this point. I at least like some of the 500 weapons for glamour and the new ones aren't really inspiring for me anyway. I main WHM and I find the WHM weapon design terrible. I much prefer the current 500 version.

I had a lot more fun with Eureka. It was for me at least really fun open world content. This going back to the farming of old uninspiring content like 24 man raids just isn't fun. Sadly many wanted this and they got what they asked for and in many respects actually killing the zone designed for the weapon to begin with.

I will take my main through one weapon at least and possibly another alt where I have a fiend who had done the content on Spriggan. Other than that I'll clear the relic dungeon and possible complete the first stage long term given i use alliance regularly to help cap my toons. Can't see doing much more than that at this point unless some nerfs or adjustments are made which I don't suspect is going to happen anytime soon.

[MilkieTea]

Quick question.

Did you do the ARR/HW relics when they were released, or the heavily nerfed forms available today?
Because if you find farming fates in Bozja boring. Explain to me how farming fates in upper la noscea for 6 days to get ONE of twelve drops was fun. Or having to spend stupid amounts of gil trying to fit materias into a relic while praying to God the goddam thing actually enters this time and doesnt break both the materia AND the alexandrite. Running Garuda and Cape Westwind for hours upon hours to get lights... etc.

They already answered your question.

[Ashgarth]

They already answered your question.

Then I ask to be enlightened on how that grind was somehow fun.

[Derio]

I enjoyed Eureka( Except for Pagos, Pagos was trash). It was something new and exciting. It was the devs taking a chance at creating something new and learning from diadem. Eureka brough people together because it had to. It was the only way to get the relic so people tried to make it as fun as possible.

Bozja splits the playerbase into 2 with 1 half doing the grind inside and the other outside of Bozja. But to make matters worse Bozja has very very very bad rewards and since the drop rates for relic items outside of Bozja are higher than doing the actual content inside of Bozja, it really makes Bozja dead on arrival.

They need to balance the reward structure. Was Eureka perfect? No but Anemos, Pyros and Hydatos are way better than Bozja by far.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I like using the Lost Actions/Essences here. If you played Pyros/Hydatos like I did, making use of them felt special and rewarding. [Not that I am going to convince you anyway.] If it was put in the open world, might as well discard the MMO role Trinity altogether for this game.

The mounts, minions, emotes, and various rewards are icing on the cake.

Skirmishes are just fates, but Critical Engagements are similar in difficulty to the likes of Hashmal, Construct 7, and all bosses in Orbonne Monstary (not counting pre-nerf Thunder God of course).

At the end of the day, I enjoyed the Bozja more than I enjoyed Eureka (including Pyros/Hydatos), and I made use of the rewards I earned from that place without taking them for granted.

They could improve the rewards for Castrum though by adding mettle and EXP.

[OvernightSiren]

I love Eureka and hate Bozja.

I think a lot of people who just bluntly hate Eureka never saw it to the end, and by the end the devs found how to make Eureka really good.

If they'd just taken all the best parts of Eureka Pyros and Hydatos and made *that* into Bozja, we'd have good content. But Bozja as it is is completely hollow.

[Jade3173]

Quick question.

Did you do the ARR/HW relics when they were released, or the heavily nerfed forms available today?
Because if you find farming fates in Bozja boring. Explain to me how farming fates in upper la noscea for 6 days to get ONE of twelve drops was fun. Or having to spend stupid amounts of gil trying to fit materias into a relic while praying to God the goddam thing actually enters this time and doesnt break both the materia AND the alexandrite. Running Garuda and Cape Westwind for hours upon hours to get lights... etc.

Simple, atma was bad design and Square hasn't done relic stages with that level of RNG since. People who defend bozja, which if you like it then go ahead and do so, seem to bring this up like it's some sort of grand argument that'll instantly shut people up. Bad design is bad design and we've moved away.

As for the alexandrite and materia section, didn't find it bad, doing the maps for alexandrite wasn't bad and were done quickly and while you had to either spiritbond your own gear and hope for the right materia, I did just buy them off the marketboard. Just going and grabbing a few Fire Clusters or something when I was on was more than enough to cover costs of materia. Gave me a use for my Botanist that I'd leveled. Light grinding is a very simple answer, I didn't run the same instance over and over again because it was "efficient". Sure if something I didn't mind doing a few times had bonus I'd go in again, but I just grabbed light by doing my normal daily stuff.

I simply don't like having to go into an instance to grind monsters/fates and do nothing else. Can't queue for anything as a DPS while I wait, can't go easily go and gather any of the timed materials, while Castrum sounds fun, again, Square just kinda did bad design again.

[Packetdancer]

The surprise is that it's infinitely more viable to do the relic grind outside of the content that was designed for it.
Memory drops in Bozja should be comparable to memory drops outside, so that people actually play Bozja and it's not a dead instance in a weeks time.

Yeah, I have no idea what happened there, but I'm in agreement with you.

I can understand making the drop rate for Memories in Bozja lower than outside; the balance is that I can run Crystal Tower raids and get one guaranteed drop of one type of Memory, whereas in Bozja I can be doing skirmishes and critical engagements and such and potentially get some combination of many different memories (Harrowing, Sorrowful, Tortured, Bitter, Loathsome, etc.) -- as well as stuff like Lockboxes and Bozjan Clusters and Forgotten Fragments. Bozja gives you the convenience of grinding multiple stages at once, so you can have several relic weapons in flight, at the cost of uncertainty since you never know which ones will drop; doing stuff outside Bozja gives you the surety of guaranteed drops, but at the cost of only advancing one relic step in a given duty.

But right now, the drop rate for, say, Loathsome memories in Bozja is so bad that I could literally farm all 15 that I'd need through Crystal Tower before I even saw one drop while running Bozja content for that same amount of time. And that seems like a balance issue.

[TaleraRistain]

Simple, atma was bad design and Square hasn't done relic stages with that level of RNG since. People who defend bozja, which if you like it then go ahead and do so, seem to bring this up like it's some sort of grand argument that'll instantly shut people up. Bad design is bad design and we've moved away.

As for the alexandrite and materia section, didn't find it bad, doing the maps for alexandrite wasn't bad and were done quickly and while you had to either spiritbond your own gear and hope for the right materia, I did just buy them off the marketboard. Just going and grabbing a few Fire Clusters or something when I was on was more than enough to cover costs of materia. Gave me a use for my Botanist that I'd leveled. Light grinding is a very simple answer, I didn't run the same instance over and over again because it was "efficient". Sure if something I didn't mind doing a few times had bonus I'd go in again, but I just grabbed light by doing my normal daily stuff.

I simply don't like having to go into an instance to grind monsters/fates and do nothing else. Can't queue for anything as a DPS while I wait, can't go easily go and gather any of the timed materials, while Castrum sounds fun, again, Square just kinda did bad design again.

That's one of my biggest issues with Eureka and even Bozja. There's an extensive amount of time you have to lock yourself away from the entire rest of the game to progress on your relic. It's not a situation like before where you go get the quest and you run your daily stuff and that gets you some updates. Then you might decide to go spend an hour or two on a specific grind. Or you could go whole hog and grind for hours like some. For Eureka and Bozja, you can't just go do the content that you like.

If they wanted to tie relics to Bozja, then normal mobs should give mettle, there should be daily missions for mettle, and the Challenge Log should give mettle. Then it's not an endless FATE farm. The questline should not have involved an instance like CLL. The most should have been an 8 man trial with an option like recent MSQ for a Trustable version. That would have both future proofed the content and attracted the casual playerbase. It would also allow things like CLL and DR to be as challenging as possible for those who like that content without shoving people who don't into it and watering down the experience.

With the way they're doing it, they're not making the rewards worthwhile to those who enjoy the content and they're turning casuals off by trying to push them into content they don't like. And it's not going to work. Casuals just won't do it.