[Suggestion] FFXIV punishment system rework

[Abyss_me]

If you are offering advice and get vote kicked because they don't want to listen, then you can just re-queue with no penalties and it saves you from playing with people who won't listen to advice AND you don't have to deal with a penalty of leaving on your own.

I cannot agree with it. If player get kicked from middle to end of long Duty (like 5.0 dungeon or 24-people raid) then he get penalty in a way on non-recived completion bounty for time spent.


To Arillyn, Bacent, Rein_eon_Osborne, Infindox and other nice ppl that pointed reasons for current system to exist.

Yeah, I totally agree with u guys that there is an issues like bots, 3rd party program users and players who skips non-desired duties (like dat bridge with ishgardian dragons). But it doesn't mean that the current way of things without it flaws. We get this vote system back in RR times and community in this days was a lot different than today.

I, personally can recall get myself kicked less than 10 times in my whole adventuring career that much less than 1% of my total Duty experience. It's not really that big, around error rate. But it heavily discourage me from even bother with other player base.

Like some of u implemented

It's not the system that needs to be fixed. What you need to fix is how you use it.

Instead of using Duty Finder's random matchmaking, you should pre-form your party from your friends

and many of my friends and FC members said same - just stop partying with random players, let the toxic people be in their toxic world of Duty Finder so they can just digest each other. But it badly hurts whole our community. I personally love to play with newbies, such a fun when somebody run away with stuck marker and u pull him with 'rescue', or meet the panic when they introduced with doom or other crazy new mechanics. It's a marital bliss. And u just saying leave our new blood to be devoured by monsters of duty finder. Then it comes to me with no surprise that we have that community that we have nowadays. This ignorance pains my heart.

Btw Jojoya and DrWho2010, are you saying that something wrong with me? You offensively called me 'selfish' and said that i don't have 'tolerance' in me. It sound like u bulling me with no reason, so please stop trolling me. Just friendly advice, because this attitude will lead to your kick in any party!

With anything that 'can' be abused, there's many people who don't abuse it. It all comes down to the people you run into, with some thinking to just boot someone to not have any issues crop up for them.

Right, so I'm saying that votekick system is abused so it should be revised. I'm not SE-dev so can say smth radical like "purge votekick from the game" but for real I just want to point on the issue that exist it our game and not solved.

[LittleImp]

Just run all of your roulettes with a kicking majority and boot them first, it's what I started doing and it's worked for me lmao.

[Arillyn]

Right, so I'm saying that votekick system is abused so it should be revised. I'm not SE-dev so can say smth radical like "purge votekick from the game" but for real I just want to point on the issue that exist it our game and not solved.

You have recourse if you feel you've been vote kicked for no good reason. You can file a complaint with the GMs and let them look into it. Is the vote kick system perfect? No but I'd rather it exist than not.

How many times have you been vote kicked to be this upset by it? I've been playing since 1.0 (well before vote kick was ever implemented) and I think I've been kicked once in all my time playing. And it's not because I'm silent all the time, I do offer information or advice when I think it will be helpful. I do play more the last couple of years with FC, but that's because we genuinely all like playing together. We do PF parties and pickup up randoms in roulettes from time to time and we don't have the kinds of issues you seem to be bringing up. We don't kick ppl either unless they are truly toxic & vile - I can only remember 1 or 2 that we actually ever kicked.

[Wrestlefire769]

Modern West. People are protected and can live without criticism. You can behave badly as a child (when a human learns how to act) and not be punished.

Result is: you don't pay my sub people

One person's "badly" is another person's upbringing.

Just basically start operating on the truth: A Terms of Service (of any kind!) means that a player DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO PLAY THE GAME AS THEY SO CHOOSE.

Ends that "you don't pay my sub" attitude in it's tracks.

You enter the Duty and meet a new comrade that has some issue with a game that need to be solved for everybody enjoyment. (...) So, as any fellow mentor do, you'll try to point on this little mistakes, try explain them and fix it. To be instantly kicked out for toxic behavior. Oh, such a labor!

And that's why they made the rule on Obstruction. It is illegal, in any way, to obstruct another player's gameplay. Them kicking you, at that point, means the GMs are gonna have to settle the matter, one way or the other.

So now I ended up in hostage situation:

Well, the second part (that you listed -- blasted 3000 character rule) is because they don't have to. They didn't want to make this game "pay the RMT to win" like XI got to be made, so they threw the needle the other direction to welcome players into the game...

... players a lot of people don't want allowed to play. "Bads", toxics, etc.

I suggest:

• remove 'vote kick' because self-moderation is not working
• remove penalties for leaving Duty on the move
• let community self-regulate itself

Which community? That's the point. The community cannot police itself if there are two (or even more) distinct player communities in opposition with one another.

Then you get people like me, who just don't give a damn and will gladly get in the face of anyone who gets me ticked enough.

You may ask, but how will we kick players for:
Q: AFK?
A: They kicked out automatically by the system
Q: Lack of skills?
A: We should not.
Q: Lack of essential stuff (like low gear level so we can't pass DPS check in unreal)?
A: We should disband and meet again properly stuffed.

Then get rid of obstruction rules. If the elites were smart, they'd have said the obstruction rule FORCES the use of parsers, and the ability to use parse info as an evidence that their gameplay is being obstructed.

In short, the obstruction rules are a very bad idea, IMODO.

[Seraphor]

I suggest:

• remove 'vote kick' because self-moderation is not working
• remove penalties for leaving Duty on the move
• let community self-regulate itself

Both of those features are what allows the community to self-regulate.
They're not 'punishments', they're tools to prevent abusive behaviour.

If the majority of a duty don't want to play with one person, for a valid reason, the vote-kick feature allows them to do so.

Leaving a duty has a penalty so that it's not abused, and people don't cheese the roulette system by queuing, leaving when it's not something they want, re-queuing, leaving again, re-queuing, etc.

[Arillyn]

Both of those features are what allows the community to self-regulate.
They're not 'punishments', they're tools to prevent abusive behaviour.

If the majority of a duty don't want to play with one person, for a valid reason, the vote-kick feature allows them to do so.

Leaving a duty has a penalty so that it's not abused, and people don't cheese the roulette system by queuing, leaving when it's not something they want, re-queuing, leaving again, re-queuing, etc.

This. All of this.

[Abyss_me]

What I'm trying to point we have bullies in chat that trying to put you in flames with words for their amuse and we have witch hunters on the other side that try to moderate everything they can. I often see when people kick somebody for being toxic and then they all praise themselves and say that bully should suffer. But they flighted bullies that long so became bullies too. Often ppl started blaming each other toxic for friendly advices. And I, who don't want to bully or witch-hunt, feel myself locked between two bullies camp with no ability to help anybody.

You have recourse if you feel you've been vote kicked for no good reason. You can file a complaint with the GMs and let them look into it. Is the vote kick system perfect? No but I'd rather it exist than not.

You know what GM says 'Blacklist player, we will look into the issue and take measures but u'll never know if we did'.
Back in NA I was never kicked and had issues except people that harshly pointed on my newbie faults in chat. It's really not appropriate way to teach somebody and they shouldn't use word they told me but in the end I've became better player. In 4.0 moved to EU DC to get better ping and it started to happen. Maybe it's fault of language barrier, but people get offended if you say anything related to game. It's like they think I blame 'em in incompetence when say "bard, pls put dots on boss" or "summoner, our healer is dead, pls res" or anything like that. And it worsen when you meet parties like

Just run all of your roulettes with a kicking majority and boot them first, it's what I started doing and it's worked for me lmao.

cuz partied people feel related to each other so they should protect members from any words of outsiders.

Both of those features are what allows the community to self-regulate.

as i said, it's not self-regulation, it self-moderation

[Abyss_me]

Which community? That's the point. The community cannot police itself if there are two (or even more) distinct player communities in opposition with one another.

Then get rid of obstruction rules. If the elites were smart, they'd have said the obstruction rule FORCES the use of parsers, and the ability to use parse info as an evidence that their gameplay is being obstructed.

In short, the obstruction rules are a very bad idea, IMODO.

Yeah, ty for advice with "Obstruction of play" reports. But it still sounds like 'if u can't outhit problem, became part of this problem'.

When I point on self-regualtion I mean this:

• SE takes away from player moderation functions ('cause it lead to abuse)
• Players choose themselves who they want to play and who not by means of blacklisting, leaving duties with players they don't like

I've heard info dat JP DC have "list of players to blacklist" that posted on forums with misbehavior description. It's not ideal, but something. And so JP servers players doesn't have issues with unreasonable votekick abuse and all the things I say ITT will sounds for 'em like some sort of nonsense.

[LunaChild]

Nah, the so-called JP blacklist mostly for PF so they can't join your party. You will be able to meet them in DF anyway and I never experience ppl got kicked in duty in my almost 10yr of playing. (unless kicking someone who dced more than 5min.)

[van_arn]

Just take the penalty if you're not prepared. And if two other people don't want you there, you should leave before made to leave anyway.

Removing vote kick is just going to open the door to harassing people until they leave. It would also open the door to people refusing to leave and harassing the rest of the party via sabotage. The two of these opposing situations combined are a recipe for disaster, and way too much work for the GMs.

I'm going to side with the majority of the party in this situation. People generally don't reach for a kick, but when they succeed it's because multiple people want someone gone. That alone is reason enough for me to say that person should be gone.