Recognizing parasistic game design decision

[Puremallace]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwHJqXKwRKM

Other sources:
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/co...itic_mechanic/
https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...103-2006-11-06

So Josh Strife Hayes has been really knocking some videos out of the park lately but this one applies to FF14 not nearly to the extent for WoW.

Effectively the best example is borrowed power systems that are put into an expansion that contribute nothing and can quickly be retired and noone would notice.

Some prime examples for FF14 are Diadem, Deep Dungeons and Blue Mage. Now Square Enix has walked a fine line here of making all of these things optional but it is worth it to be educated about this topic.

I personally believe FF14 is approaching a tipping point that WoW hit and took the borrowed power approach to combat ability bloat with obvious horrible consequences.

[Elissar]

To summarize what happened to WoW: imagine if relic farming was part of MSQ and if you didn't made it, then you would never have enough DPS/Tank/Heal capacity to be called for an endgame instance. But, if you made it, for the next expansion all your progress is gone.

[Nethereal]

Sounds like Tera Gearing process. Takes 12 months for a regular person to get end game, gear becomes irrelevant in 6 months, repeat.

[Holystyle]

Why these forums are lacking much.

Where is Report button for spamming= advertising etc.

[Puremallace]

Why these forums are lacking much.

Where is Report button for spamming= advertising etc.

Would it make you feel special if I removed the Youtube link? Want me to post 20 different videos for you too choose from? Here just for you I will add multiple sources so that you do not feel pressured to click on a Youtube link that I explain in the very next sentence of the post.

Wish I could wake up everyday and make great edgy post like this.

[Akiudo]

Effectively the best example is borrowed power systems that are put into an expansion that contribute nothing and can quickly be retired and noone would notice.

Some prime examples for FF14 are Diadem, Deep Dungeons and Blue Mage. Now Square Enix has walked a fine line here of making all of these things optional but it is worth it to be educated about this topic.

i fail to see what any of those have to do with "borrowed power" systems, and if anything the problem with borrowed power systems is that they contribute something and can't be removed without people noticing. losing your artifact weapon at the end of legion felt like shit, going through the same every single expansion feels like shit because it kills the feeling of getting stronger and actually gaining power. that aside "making it optional" is also not a fine line but very clear cut and simple in the cases you mentioned.

[CaptainFishSticks]

I don't feel like FFXIV is in much danger of the same borrowed power systems that WoW inevitably had to introduce; but one thing to keep in mind, they introduced those systems solely for the reason that the designers did not feel like just leveling and optional side content was enough to keep players busy and actively playing their game. So with Warlords, they introduced the Garrisons--a system that you had to grind and max out in order to get any sort of relevance. Those were abandoned for Legion when the Artifacts came out, and we had to grind Artifact Power just to stay relevant. Then those were phased out for the Heart of Azeroth, which we had to grind in order to stay relevant.

They introduced these things because they had to find out a way to keep players playing their game. Whereas by contrast, Yoshi-P has expressed that if players are running into a wall and have no desire to continue playing in between patches, that they should definitely take breaks from the game. He and the dev team make their game so that we can enjoy it at our own paces.

[Puremallace]

i fail to see what any of those have to do with "borrowed power" systems, and if anything the problem with borrowed power systems is that they contribute something and can't be removed without people noticing. losing your artifact weapon at the end of legion felt like shit, going through the same every single expansion feels like shit because it kills the feeling of getting stronger and actually gaining power. that aside "making it optional" is also not a fine line but very clear cut and simple in the cases you mentioned.

So borrowed power systems you put large amount of time into and they apply nowhere else in the game except in the specific content designed for it that is never added to ever again and is retired. Like Blizzard will never add more levels to the heart of Azeroth or more Azerite gear.

They will never add more Class Hall quest to expand your legion Artifact. It is a not a core system system or support but a parasitic mechanic solely designed to leech time and investment for no actual character progression.

[Akiudo]

So borrowed power systems you put large amount of time into and they apply nowhere else in the game except in the specific content designed for it that is never added to ever again and is retired. Like Blizzard will never add more levels to the heart of Azeroth or more Azerite gear.

They will never add more Class Hall quest to expand your legion Artifact. It is a not a core system system or support but a parasitic mechanic solely designed to leech time and investment for no actual character progression.

yes but none of the things you mentioned in final fantasy even implies character progression, none of it actually ever offered any power, therefore its also not "borrowed power". if palace of the dead was "borrowed power" you may aswell call the gold saucer borrowed power. for your comparison to make sense palace of the dead would need to actually make my character stronger, thereby effectively forcing me to do it if i want to be at the top during the given expansion and than actually take these boons away from me afterwards.

[Jeeqbit]

Obviously if you get Bozja you can compare it to a lot of what WoW has been doing in its recent expansions, with the Lost Actions, valor, succor and fortitude grinds, relic grinds and DR savage.

The difference is that it's all optional with no sign of that changing. You can just do savage with a crafted weapon and loot a savage weapon and feel accomplished.

When I'm asked by former WoW players what the biggest differences are in this game I tell them it's that all these grinds are optional and you do it for mounts, glamour or even fun. If you're trying to say this is a bad thing then I disagree because it's what is drawing people to this game.