Can Healer Balance Survive a 4th Healer?

[Rilifane]

This is a terrible mindset caused by nothing other than the "healer adjust" mentality. Succor at most shieldsfor 5-8% of your total HP, shields were nerfed hard in ShB.

A stacked Reprisal / Shield Samba will mitigate more than a succor ever would. And they're easier to do because they are off the GCD where as Succor has to be casted.

If the tanks and DPS are too lazy to use the tools of their toolkit, then take them away and let healers be buffers and debuffers like they should be.

Take Addle away from the casters and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD magic damage reduction: Shell.

Take Feint away from the melee and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD physical damage reduction: Protect.

Of course it's a terrible mindset. I have never in any way endorsed it.
But look at most PFs and statics and you'll see that this is how it's done. Path of least resistance. Just adding a Succor/ Noct Asp Helios to almost every aoe is easy. And unfortunately most healers are happy to oblige; it's not just others enforcing this mindset, it's also too many healers happily bowing to this demand.
The forum might give a different impression because people here are vocal about wanting to dps, others to use their tools and avoiding GCD heals (escpecially if it's only for safety and comfort) but that's not how most people play it.

And healers already have tools to mitigate damage but you still see GCD shields get used more often. You maybe see 1-2 uses of Temperance, Fey Illumination or CU throughout a fight but a lot more GCD heals. I don't think taking away mitigation from dps will do the trick because it's not just dps or tanks who don't properly utilize mitigation. It's healers aswell.
And tbh I wouldn't want dps to get gutted just because a lot of players ignore these tools. Keep them for the good players, keep that layer they have. It's bad enough that healers lost so much depths.
I'd like to see more mitigation tools on healers (and buffs/ debuffs in general) but I don't realistically expect them to get used all that much even if they're good. ShB healer change attracted a lot of players to healing that look for the easiest way with an already easy and gutted role no matter the content.

[Mavrias]

Wether it's ST or aoe, it doesn't matter. The raid as a whole has a lot of tools to mitigate incoming damage but forcing the healer to GCD shield aoes instead is easier, so that's how PF and many statics do it. Not every aoe one-shots you at low ilvl without stacking mitigation. It's not rocket science to shift some mitigation from the less dangerous aoes to the more dangerous ones. GCD shields are the easy way out and don't require communication. It's comfy and it has been done for so long that many people don't even try to coordinate anymore because why go through all the hassle of using HoL, Reprisal, Samba, Addle etc. when you can simply put a healer on bubble duty?

This just sounds like a lack of communication with your group if you're feeling forced to GCD shield.

[Absurdity]

This just sounds like a lack of communication with your group if you're feeling forced to GCD shield.

Like Rilifane just said, it's mostly groups being too lazy to coordinate their mitigation so instead they just tell the healers to heal more. This is somewhat understandable in PF groups with complete randoms but in a static it would be a sign to me that they don't really care about their healers.

To be honest, I would tell healers to just ditch that group but unfortunately it's not that easy, people who think like that make up a whole lot of the playerbase.

[Rilifane]

This just sounds like a lack of communication with your group if you're feeling forced to GCD shield.

Where have I said I'm talking about my own static?
I'm not talking about my own static. But I've done plenty of PF to help people practice, to practice alt classes or once savage unlocked to farm gear and it's almost the same everywhere. Even when you ask for mitigation at specific parts, you'll usually get a "k I'll try" and it works for maybe 1-2 tries and after that, they forget it again.
Just relying on the healer shield-botting is pretty common in PF and even several statics I know. Plus most healers don't go against it either, they just follow along.

[Liam_Harper]

Take Addle away from the casters and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD magic damage reduction: Shell.

Take Feint away from the melee and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD physical damage reduction: Protect.

"We want healers to be more engaging and for Enix to stop gutting them".

Community answer to this issue: Have Enix gut dps instead.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for healers getting a few buffs or debuffs, in addition to making dps more engaging, but why can't we just add tools instead of ripping them from someone else. Also the argument that too many dps don't use them therefore they shouldn't have them makes no sense when the majority of healers are neglecting half their own toolkit. Do we gut oGCD heals and hand them to tanks next?

[Absurdity]

"We want healers to be more engaging and for Enix to stop gutting them".

Community answer to this issue: Have Enix gut dps instead.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for healers getting a few buffs or debuffs, in addition to making dps more engaging, but why can't we just add tools instead of ripping them from someone else. Also the argument that too many dps don't use them therefore they shouldn't have them makes no sense when the majority of healers are neglecting half their own toolkit. Do we gut oGCD heals and hand them to tanks next?

It's less of a logical statement and more one born from frustration. I suggested the same thing before, not because it would be a great idea but because DPS players make up a majority of the playerbase, so if we dumbed them down to the point that dps start complaining we might actually get some changes done.

[Dogempire]

It's less of a logical statement and more one born from frustration. I suggested the same thing before, not because it would be a great idea but because DPS players make up a majority of the playerbase, so if we dumbed them down to the point that dps start complaining we might actually get some changes done.

If they removed mitigation tools from dps then the vast majority of the player base wouldn't care since very few dps actually bother to mitigate mechanics in the first place.

The only people I can see complaining are physical ranged since they've pretty much been suffering an identity crisis since 5.0 from being gutted of any utility that other dps don't have in some capacity, and SE has for ignored them for the most part while they've been listening to complaints about jobs like Monk and Ninja.

[Recon1o6]

no job should have to be sacrificed for another, Some players here don't recognise this. Stop that line of thought as thats one of the ways shb got into its current job mess

[Deceptus]

If they removed mitigation tools from dps then the vast majority of the player base wouldn't care since very few dps actually bother to mitigate mechanics in the first place.
.

Pretty much this. In normal dungeon or Ex content I rarely if EVER see Feint, Addle, Shield Samba, or Tactician used.

"But Deceptus, they're not needed!"

To that I say, Practice like you Play. The only way to develop good habits is to do them, in all aspects of play.

[Videra]

Healer balance? Probably.

Good healer class design? It didn't even survive Shadowbringers.