Can Healer Balance Survive a 4th Healer?

[Absurdity]

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I really hope that idea dies soon. It may have been a requirement in the past to have 1 regen healer and 1 eHP healer for the high end content but that hasn't really been the case for a majority of Stormblood and certainly not for Shadowbringers.
It's very simple, people need to ask themselves the question "do we die from this mechanic, even with full hp, if I don't put shields on the party?" If the answer is no, then shields are unnecessary and if that is the case for every mechanic in an encounter then a shield healer is unnecessary.

[Rilifane]

Oh, tell me about it.
I try to keep myself relatively close to -both- the tank and the boss, which more than likely will put myself relatively in the middle of 3 or 7 other members.

The thing is, it worries me (or should I say: amuses me) that the likelihood of encountering players that could not grasp the many advantages of sticking relatively close to the boss’ ass is quite staggeringly common, especially if one actively using DF.

And by ‘relatively close’, I’m referring to an area just as wide as the 3 healers’ dome-shaped AoEs such as [Earthly Star], [Collective Unconsciousness], [Asylum] & [Sacred Soil]. At least that’s the general radius which I would expect if they were to implement a ‘melee healer’ (it could be 5y or even as far as 12y akin to DRG’s tether, but I’ll stick to the middle ground, which is 8y)

Of course, if they do not have the luxury of 20y - 30y target healing like our existing healers do, trying to reach those Narnia snipers would be a chore. Ngl, like Dogempire stated. Rescue or let them dig their own lonely grave. Both are very tempting to do—just not a fan of doing it myself.

I think a lot of it comes down to habits from other games which had their purpose there but not here.
If a boss loved to just drop puddles under you without warning it was best to stay spread and farther away so they don't clog melee range and make navigating through the boss room easier. A priest talent in WoW even increased in healing if you stand farther away.

But many mechanics here are designed in a way that it's best to stay at max melee even if you're not a melee. You have the occasional mechanic in dungeons and raids that needs everyone spread for a moment (like e5s Thunderstorm or e6s HoH) but those are outliers.
Most players don't realise just how much they're putting themselves at a disadvantage by staying far away from the action. Not just because of buffs and heals but many mechanics are harder to dodge if you're standing far away, not easier. Pointblanks are usually just big enough to force tanks and melees to disengage for a moment, making it easy to cover the distance with a single slidecast if you're at max melee while cones and donuts require a lot more movement if you're standing outside.
But a large part of the community still has this weird misconception that melee range is exclusively for melees and tanks and everyone else needs to kindly f*ck off when only very few mechanics require you to move out and give you several in-your-face warnings way ahead of time.

Although I didn't make a habit of standing in Narnia to begin with, it wasn't until I played BLM and got into savage that I really noticed just how much easier everything is not just for healers but for myself aswell if I stand close to the boss.
Even on fairly immobile classes like BLM and WhM it's entirely possible to stay in melee range and still preposition in time before a mechanic goes off. Everyone profits from it. DNC can use Impro/ Curing Waltz, everyone gets the healer bubbles, buffs and raid shields, DRG can tether anyone, PLD can flap the wings and catch everyone.

I wish people wouldn't just play classes to 80 but try to learn from it aswell. You learn so much by actively playing a different role or class.

I really hope that idea dies soon. It may have been a requirement in the past to have 1 regen healer and 1 eHP healer for the high end content but that hasn't really been the case for a majority of Stormblood and certainly not for Shadowbringers.
It's very simple, people need to ask themselves the question "do we die from this mechanic, even with full hp, if I don't put shields on the party?" If the answer is no, then shields are unnecessary and if that is the case for every mechanic in an encounter then a shield healer is unnecessary.

Even if there is one mechanic that loves to one-shot people (like e7s tethers on casters at entry level gear) you can find ways to work around that. Throw that Heart of Stone/ TBN/ Benison/ CI on that squishy or if it's a BLM, put that MW to good use for once. Maybe shift around some party mitigation. Even tank LB is viable if you still get a melee LB 3 in case you need it for dps. And AST still has Neutral.
But it's easier to just ask your healer to spam GCD shields instead of thinking about what kind of tools the raid as a whole has.

[QooEr]

But it's easier to just ask your healer to spam GCD shields instead of thinking about what kind of tools the raid as a whole has.

i think its more about raidwide aoes. sure, its easy to just shield 1 person, even back when tbn and benison didnt exist, cuz of stoneskin. but when the entire party needs to mitigate a lot thats when they turn to shields

at least thats how i see it. i honestly dont know why anyone would run nocturnal sect in anything that isn't min ilv savage or ultimate though.

[Rilifane]

i think its more about raidwide aoes. sure, its easy to just shield 1 person, even back when tbn and benison didnt exist, cuz of stoneskin. but when the entire party needs to mitigate a lot thats when they turn to shields

at least thats how i see it. i honestly dont know why anyone would run nocturnal sect in anything that isn't min ilv savage or ultimate though.

Wether it's ST or aoe, it doesn't matter. The raid as a whole has a lot of tools to mitigate incoming damage but forcing the healer to GCD shield aoes instead is easier, so that's how PF and many statics do it. Not every aoe one-shots you at low ilvl without stacking mitigation. It's not rocket science to shift some mitigation from the less dangerous aoes to the more dangerous ones. GCD shields are the easy way out and don't require communication. It's comfy and it has been done for so long that many people don't even try to coordinate anymore because why go through all the hassle of using HoL, Reprisal, Samba, Addle etc. when you can simply put a healer on bubble duty?

[Payadopa]

Honestly a 4th healer would solve healer issues all together, AST can finally dumped the awful nocturnal sect and focus on its better side diurnal and maybe be able to be balanced properly

Speak for yourself. I vastly prefer Nocturnal. lol

[Payadopa]

Honestly, I think the biggest problem IS wanting to balance them. I mean, trying to balance is fine but SE is downright psychotic about it and it does more harm than good. Just design something fun. The meta will always single one out anyway.

[SpiralMask]

@OP: if they give healers something for downtime (not necessarily DPS, such as real card management or fairy guage management in a perfect world), sure!
otherwise it'll be just as soulcrushing to level and use as the other three.

[Deceptus]

Wether it's ST or aoe, it doesn't matter. The raid as a whole has a lot of tools to mitigate incoming damage but forcing the healer to GCD shield aoes instead is easier, so that's how PF and many statics do it. Not every aoe one-shots you at low ilvl without stacking mitigation. It's not rocket science to shift some mitigation from the less dangerous aoes to the more dangerous ones. GCD shields are the easy way out and don't require communication. It's comfy and it has been done for so long that many people don't even try to coordinate anymore because why go through all the hassle of using HoL, Reprisal, Samba, Addle etc. when you can simply put a healer on bubble duty?

This is a terrible mindset caused by nothing other than the "healer adjust" mentality. Succor at most shieldsfor 5-8% of your total HP, shields were nerfed hard in ShB.

A stacked Reprisal / Shield Samba will mitigate more than a succor ever would. And they're easier to do because they are off the GCD where as Succor has to be casted.

If the tanks and DPS are too lazy to use the tools of their toolkit, then take them away and let healers be buffers and debuffers like they should be.

Take Addle away from the casters and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD magic damage reduction: Shell.

Take Feint away from the melee and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD physical damage reduction: Protect.

[QooEr]

If the tanks and DPS are too lazy to use the tools of their toolkit, then take them away and let healers be buffers and debuffers like they should be.

Take Addle away from the casters and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD magic damage reduction: Shell.

Take Feint away from the melee and give it to healers as a group wide, short CD physical damage reduction: Protect.

and/or give us back virus and disable.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

If the tanks and DPS are too lazy to use the tools of their toolkit, then take them away and let healers be buffers and debuffers like they should be.

I would kill to have more buffing and debuffing utilities as a healer. While I'm personally just 'fine' with 1 nuke 1 DoT button, having more thing to do related to party's parameters is a huge plus to me.