Plots everywhere demolished and open!

[Shougun]

Oh, for real!! I was speaking to my fc about how it's just wrong to be a sub-to-play model AND have a cash shop. The idea of a cash shop was to supplement money that wasn't being made from a subscription model. I also have qualms with sub2play games needing you to purchase the game outright. Considering we don't get $60 worth of game at launch... but that's another argument entirely.



Agreed. They're predatory no matter how to look at them, and the worst thing to come to games as a service. (I never said anything about lootboxes, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. I really was just saying larger-than-an-entire-city house plots being in the mogstation would be something I could swallow as the situation of extra retainers has been explained to us.)

The only solution to the housing situation is the expansion of apartments and instanced housing. Every time they expand wards is just sort of like they're covering their ears and going lalalalalla to every criticism of the system.

For the first part, yee lol. I would only see it as a win if FFXIV gave us a sort of monthly crowns system. Naturally they don't feel they need to do so they don't.. XD.... But it's what I've been suggesting (hopefully they change their mind), in some sort of essence, for a while with the veteran reward system. I saw their original system was going to cause issues where they might award at 5 years this awesome item but then someone new (late join to the game) is going to be like "this game is going to be massively outdated in 5 years and I would love to have it before then..".. so I was trying to push SE towards that concept where you could purchase these cool new items or if you didn't want the one they release you could pick something else instead (naturally the rate of tokens being not so much to make the cash shop useless for SE but also not so little that a player is like "great it'll still take me 5 years to get that item" lol).

As for the lootbox thing I brought them up simply because SturmChurro did. I did a dual response so I can see how you might think I suggested that on your post, but I was replying to both at the same time since I felt they related enough.

Finally on housing yeah.. said many many years ago but ultimately the /only/ solution to FFXIV's housing problems will be empowering / creating a different house system. Whether that be apartments that can upgrade into instanced house spaces, or using FFXIV' ShB's lore like in that one special zone... to create a story moment that unlocks personal instanced (powerful) housing, whatever. If this was the first game to have housing it might sound reasonable to be like "that's not technologically possible" but we can SEE other games not only let you have one house but multiple personal houses, without limit for how many players play the game ("it just works" - Todd Howard).

We know it's a thing that can be overcome. So it's far less easy to be like "yeh oh well".

But their current system will only keep causing problems, for it's entire life span. You add more houses, the neighborhoods die, you add enough so it's 1:1 for each player then it means some players can never get X size or Y Theme, neighborhoods still dying, you don't add so many so the neighborhoods are better (perhaps they cost more too).. people can't get houses then, houses are limited so you need to take them away from players if they dont play (hold players hostage, and discourage players to return if they lost something they cared about), have to ensure reselling isn't too easy else houses will sell for 500x they cost from SE because they've a market issue (so now you've players standing at placards doing some of the worst soul crushing gameplay I've heard, praying they can get a house.. for hours.. doing actions that are just like a bot would have to do). Honestly if they wanted "THIS" system they should have kept players out of it and made it cost even more than it used to... but of course I feel that'd be silly and housing should be more attainable and an experience for all (or let's say they did go that route of only for FC, then it should be an experience for all FC (which it's often not) like you might point at GW2 in that sense where each "fc" gets a guild zone).

There will always be that "this system is shooting itself and all the players right in the foot and the face at the same time". It's why, even if FFXIV might never escape this system, that I'm like "I hope to never see this one system again, ever".

[SturmChurro]

I use the sub to not have to buy every single little expansion pack. Dropping $15 for a month to do all the content and then not play for a while is more cost effective for me as a player. There are greater issues with them scalping rewards out of high end content for the crownstore, but that is a separate discussion that lines up with SE itself.



SE is a pay to play game with $40 mounts in their cash shop. For a game that has no benefit for picking one race or another (reasons race change purchases, or other games refusing to offer them, exist) they make you pay $10 for the privilege of changing your skin color.

I also don't buy the guilt-trip that "proceeds made from the mogstation go right back to ffxiv developers". That's where our sub should go.


Also I will say you can't really call ESO's limited time sales limited when they pop up like clockwork to the point people have made spreadsheets about it.

Why would you buy any of their DLC with your crowns, when if you are subbed all the time anyway stacking those monthly crowns, you have access to all DLC? You get literally nothing out of those monthly crowns at that point. How much do you play those DLC, not subbed? If you have to be subbed several months to even buy the DLC in the first place, you are paying for them just the same as you would upfront. Just slowly, overtime.

FFXIV has ONE $36 dollar, (which is less than ESO mounts) account-wide, that multiple people can ride. With about 16 or 17 mogstation specific mounts, and the rest being holiday mounts (total 25). In comparison ESO has HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of mounts that you have to have PAID for with crowns alone. Now, granted, I do think there should be an alternative to the Chocobo carriage that can be attained at any time in-game. But please, it's not even equivalent.

They are "limited", there is a reason I included " ". It's artificial* scarcity, as I said, it's a ploy.

[LisSquid]

Why would you buy any of their DLC with your crowns, when if you are subbed all the time anyway stacking those monthly crowns, you have access to all DLC? You get literally nothing out of those monthly crowns at that point. How much do you play those DLC, not subbed? If you have to be subbed several months to even buy the DLC in the first place, you are paying for them just the same as you would upfront. Just slowly, overtime.

FFXIV has ONE $36 dollar, (which is less than ESO mounts) account-wide, that multiple people can ride. With about 16 or 17 mogstation specific mounts, and the rest being holiday mounts (total 25). In comparison ESO has HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of mounts that you have to have PAID for with crowns alone. Now, granted, I do think there should be an alternative to the Chocobo carriage that can be attained at any time in-game. But please, it's not even equivalent.

They are "limited", there is a reason I included " ". It's false scarcity, as I said, it's a ploy.

I don't know why you're coming at me about this on a thread about housing, truly. Also, the most expensive eso mount is $30. Most are $13, which is in line with Mogstation.

And I do make good on my sub on eso c: Just finally finished the final trifecta runs of the new dungeons (pointing back to them siphoning rewards out of pve into crates because people refuse to engage in hard content aside.. I'll wear these tattoos anyway.)


The mogstation has no right to exist, but it does. I'd argue it has even less right to exist than the crownstore, but it does.

[SturmChurro]

I don't know why you're coming at me about this on a thread about housing, truly. Also, the most expensive eso mount is $30. Most are $13, which is in line with Mogstation.

And I do make good on my sub on eso c: Just finally finished the final trifecta runs of the new dungeons (pointing back to them siphoning rewards out of pve into crates because people refuse to engage in hard content aside.. I'll wear these tattoos anyway.)


The mogstation has no right to exist, but it does. I'd argue it has even less right to exist than the crownstore, but it does.

I was replying to YOU, on the "$40" mount, and cash shop. I never saw this addressed, which WAS about housing:

When it comes to housing. ESO has very good instanced housing. You can even see the property on the map. You can walk to it on the map - so it's there, but it's not. The scale is massive, and the amount of customization therein is amazing. SE could take notes from this, I will agree with that point, and that point alone - when it comes to ESO housing. Players could have properties even greater than having a large plot.

Please.

ESO is a faux buy to play game. It is heavily emphasized to play with the sub. The fact of the matter is free to play, or buy to play games, are actually MORE expensive games, than something with FFXIVs model. I think SE gets a lot of uncalled for flak over the mogstation.

Sure, I can agree with you, the mogstation has no right to exist! But nor does any of the items created FOR the mogstation! That's the thing! If the mogstation didn't exist it doesn't mean ANY of these items would be in-game. They were created by the mogstation team FOR the mogstation.

I do think more in depth instanced housing should be made available however, IN-GAME, not the mogstation. I would rather not see any properties on the mogstation. There is a lot of untapped potential here though, when it comes to instanced housing.

Sorry, if I am coming off aggressive. It's because I went to bed with a migraine, I woke up with a migraine, and I got annoyed after reading certain replies (not in this thread). Don't take it personally, please.

[NanaWiloh]

Don't have to like the mogstation but the data center move and the servers there. The servers they are looking to add too aid with housing would not have happend or being happening without the mogstation. The developers dont control how much money they have to work with SE does and SE has been gimping since this games launch.

[Shougun]

ESO just uses the "free" monthly crowns as an excuse to jam pack their cash shop full of items. Their "limited time" sales for both lootboxes, and just general items, are a horrifying business practice. It's bait. They get your sub-fee and players will presumably dump their free crowns on certain limited items, or lootboxes, then when the next limited sale pops up they have to spend real money OR miss out, with the "limited time" header looming. They are preying on people. The exorbitant prices are just further proof. The free crowns are just there to get you into the cash shop. It's a ploy. SE on the other hand, has a cash shop with fairly reasonably priced items - in comparison to other MMOs, that isn't advertised heavily, and it's not even actually in the game. It doesn't get updated every single week, and everything sold there is there to stay, and you don't have to HOPE you get something in a lootbox. You pay up front, and you are good. I like how SE has handled their cash shop.

I do think SE should offer more, new sub rewards, however, credits to the mogstation is a debatable issue, in my opinion.

When it comes to housing. ESO has very good instanced housing. You can even see the property on the map. You can walk to it on the map - so it's there, but it's not. The scale is massive, and the amount of customization therein is amazing. SE could take notes from this, I will agree with that point, and that point alone - when it comes to ESO housing. Players could have properties even greater than having a large plot.

I would add one point and then concede one.

A) I view ESO from afar, in the sense that I hear people talk about it, watch videos on content people reference (so I'm not entirely unaware when talking lol), and I tried the beta. I don't actively play / have played the recent game. I also only view other MMOs to see what can encourage FFXIV to be better (or SE's next mmo, since I think that far as well). So like there are some parts of the garrison system in WoW I think are quite awesome, and other parts that clearly it's own player base thought were poorly tended to and implemented. So other games is for sampling the best concepts, I've not the interest to go and improve their feature for them lol. We're at the ice cream sundae buffet bar

B) Conceded here is that you can definitely abuse players by making hilarious tier 'deals'. $200 for Odin mount, but for the month of July at the same time we release this other content that it'll 'only' be 25$! (Hyperbolic example lol).

The point to me is theoretically if FFXIV had similar structure to now in terms of game content IN game, and yet they add some say houses, perhaps some other FF content mounts and ouftits (more than they do now), their dyes they already have, retainers sure, etc all purchase-able with a monthly token item that would simply be a win for us. Not a loss.

Win for SE as well in terms of customer reception of the shop, and potentially financially as well if they had ways to pay with a mix of token and cash (so then you could make something cheaper). "I wont pay 8$ for that emote but I'd pay 3$ Or I want it and it'll cost me nothing extra because I'll just simply stack my sub token and use that". Adds some more value to the idea of staying subbed even if you're taking a break BUT also doesn't hold you hostage like our current houses do (if you stop you just stop collecting 'crowns', nothing is taken away). Technically it'd probably be crysta but I really want the mogshop to use mog currency like kupo nuts or poms or something lol (also want to see mognet built in game, with extra in game mog content and then back door hidden scene for an in game shop where you could test wear / ride stuff). Bribing the moogle with the kupo nuts so moogle boss Ms. M doesn't see you walk out of the shop with the item paid only in nuts lol.

Like I said though I'm using the lens of looking at ESO as if it was also a P2P like FFXIV. Given the circumstance of P2P of FFXIV I see getting tokens as a pure win. If you view ESO as a F2P (B2P) and then add on top all the weird sales you are mentioning (loot boxes), etc, then I guess I can see your angle of it being bad.

But since I'm looking only to make FFXIV better (well at least from my perspective lol, I'd like it better for everyone including the devs but naturally there is a bias of desires).. so I have a hard time seeing the crowns as some evil (assuming they keep similar structure to now and don't pull "500% off house now only 250$". There is obviously some caveats lol.

Personally wouldn't call 30$ mounts reasonable btw, but I get you were making a comparative statement . Like saying Apple products are reasonably priced XD... The amount you think it's worth vs it's worth vs what you would actually pay.


Edit: To your last post on instanced housing made available in game, I was posting under the assumption that it would either be extra slots or for special themes not 'the only way' to get a house. Although if the token system was generous enough I might not be annoyed still, but the best gameplay implementation would be one that allows the shop to supplement the experience and not be "the experience". Akin to retainers or something. Or like if they added retainer customization and then sold some special glamours that made your retainer look like your favorite waifu/manfu. I would give zero Thal Balls if they sold Cloud's appearance as a retainer, or a little bit more annoying but still 'fine' is being able to purchase more retainers (although I hope SE doesn't let that system ruin their thoughts on making better inventory systems, like crafting bags or whatever), but then if the only way to obtain any retainer what so ever was via the shop I'd be like "WOW. That's awful".

[LisSquid]

ESO is a faux buy to play game. It is heavily emphasized to play with the sub. The fact of the matter is free to play, or buy to play games, are actually MORE expensive games, than something with FFXIVs model. I think SE gets a lot of uncalled for flak over the mogstation.

We can agree on this that Zenimax has abused the cosmetic nature of the store, while removing rewards out of the game. There was a time this wasn't true, but here we are.

Sorry, if I am coming off aggressive. It's because I went to bed with a migraine, I woke up with a migraine, and I got annoyed after reading certain replies (not in this thread). Don't take it personally, please.

It's alll good. I genuinely enjoy your input on this forum <3.

Don't have to like the mogstation but the data center move and the servers there. The servers they are looking to add too aid with housing would not have happend or being happening without the mogstation. The developers dont control how much money they have to work with SE does and SE has been gimping since this games launch.

Thinking that improvements of the game should hang on the profits from mogstation is.. bad. It's bad. If that really is how it works, then SE is rotten. Companies redistribute money away from projects to fund other ones, but if they are neglecting the game with "well, MOGSTATION sales alll go back into ffxiv!!" That's manipulative.

[NanaWiloh]

We can agree on this that Zenimax has abused the cosmetic nature of the store, while removing rewards out of the game. There was a time this wasn't true, but here we are.



It's alll good. I genuinely enjoy your input on this forum <3.





Thinking that improvements of the game should hang on the profits from mogstation is.. bad. It's bad. If that really is how it works, then SE is rotten. Companies redistribute money away from projects to fund other ones, but if they are neglecting the game with "well, MOGSTATION sales alll go back into ffxiv!!" That's manipulative.

Ya its a terrible tatic. Never liked it myself the game should be getting the biggest cut of its own sub money. If the Dev team got the kind of money they needed a lot of the issues the game has could be fixed, more of what players want could be added.

[SturmChurro]

...

ESO has done some things really well, again, instanced housing. SE could most definitely take things from this and other competitors, perfect it, and make a much better game. So, I agree with the thought.

I love how ESO did their instanced housing (not the price tag). Like I was saying, you can actually go to, and see the home on the map. It's an actual part of the world, sure when you enter it things change as per your decor, but I like that it's there. It almost gives a sense of community like FFXIV, your home is right THERE. A part of the map. It's cool. I think that would be a really cool implementation for this game, and would fit completely in theme here, while giving us proper instanced housing at the same time!

I just know something needs to be done about housing in FFXIV. As is, too many people are getting left out. I think it's archaic, and I get the idea, but so much more could be done! I should address, that yeah, if you have a house you cannot take a break. It sucks that if you have any kind of real world emergency, living situation changes, etc. you lose your house. I spent an entire day clicking on a placard, it would be a torture for someone to lose the house they spent a TON of time decorating, or just getting the plot of land in the first place. New, proper, instanced housing, in some form, could be a nice way to solve this, or rather alleviate this issue. It could provide for a much less torturous experience, and even provide much more expansive options when it comes to housing in general. Really, with housing in the state it is right now though, almost anything would be a better solution than what it is.

I just don't think a a "free" crysta, like ESO crowns, would really work out well for this game as a whole. I think it would only make the cash shop more prevalent and predatory over time. Like ESO. Despite the probable good reception.

Yes, I was just comparing SE's pricing to other things. I think much of what is sold is overpriced. Like their $18 dollar outfits - which I buy anyway, but it's not really out of the norm for things to cost that much. Not excusing the pricing, but acknowledging it.

We can agree on this that Zenimax has abused the cosmetic nature of the store, while removing rewards out of the game. There was a time this wasn't true, but here we are.



It's alll good. I genuinely enjoy your input on this forum <3.

I actually don't know how bad it has gotten now. I haven't played it for over a year at this point. I have actually played that game since BETA, but it was never a main game for me. I mean, I've probably put a pretty large amount of time into my high elf, but it's safe to say I play it on and off, for lengthy periods about once a year. Since it's launch. Mostly just for the story, and making outfits. Love my High Elf - she looks great. I just know whenever I play it, I would just get incredibly disgusted by just how predatory the cash shop was. Yes, I have fell prey to it as well. Despite my complaints, I have spent quite a bit of money on their cash shop as well, for outfits or whatever. Just as I have this game.

I remember when ESO had a cash shop, and it was really scarce. If they have started lessening or seemingly outright removing rewards from the game in favor of the cash shop, that is really bad.

Sorry, again.

[Shougun]

I respect your concern SturmChurro, so if we said you knew for SURE SE wouldn't go out of their way to abuse players then the concept of crown in sub would be cool but you don't and so you're not crazy for the idea? I'd call that fair enough lol.

I think SE is a talented and great game company but I wouldn't say I'm blindfaith to them, so if they did try that I'd probably be like "that's very sad to hear, but fine then - bye", although I wish they go that direction where you want to give them blindfaith (some recent missteps and not a pure feeling that they refuse to release anything but perfection, but I think they're working on that image again or just some nice releases recently - which I don't want to make sound it's easy lol). Like if Supergiant makes something I just assume it'll be gleaming with polish. If Larian says their game is ready it'll be pretty great out the door and continue to be supported in big ways (although people have to keep in mind they have the early access model so "ready" and "playable" are different lol). If Rockstar games makes a game you bet it'll have one heck of a single player ride with verrrrrrry high attention to detail, and also a micro transaction riddled multiplayer experience that is thankfully entirely optional to enjoy their games. FromSoftware is going to punish your soul but not your wallet. CD Projket was in that group, but their Cyberpunk launch obviously left a lot to be desired (not a horrible game but you could tell it was not ready to launch and they cut a lot of content to get it to the 'not ready for launch' state that it was in. SE has a lot of high caliber games, so you could say they're in that direction and in a great way but some recent stuff in history makes me want to say "probably, but lets wait for one more game before we announce membership" (FFXV, imo, had clear signs of things missing and just not feeling all the way "done" but was still fun, I very much liked the road trip vibes, and SE's mobile games are very predatory, imo, which I guess doesn't have to mar their PC side of things but I'm certainly aware some division of SE thinks it's fine). SE was definitely in that group when I was younger, but there was a period where they made interesting stuff but with obvious flaws that were like "aww.. what's that about? Like FFXIII had some awesome moments in each department that a game can be a game but also had quite a few flaws that were like ... "that's not it.. that's not the secret sauce"). Blizzard used to be there but they've fallen a bit, their treatment of WC3 Reforged was pretty bad and as it was basically one of the games I spent most of my childhood on was like "OOOOOFF - you just stab the child in me". Of course fallen doesn't mean incompetent or not talented (blizzard still houses some high talented people), EA and Activision produce some great titles occasionally but they're also the big examples of companies NOT to blindly trust because they will metaphorically rob you in broad daylight in front of your family at the wedding if you stop paying attention to them.

I suppose if I was talking about an EA game and a crown system I'd be massively hesitant too, but I'd probably be massively hesitant to talk about anything with money in it lol, but I want to be hopefully SE wouldn't do that at least not in their PC market. Whoever is in charge of their mobile stuff I've faith would do that XD (I know a bit of it is outsourced and there is some fun stuff in it, but the micro transactions in some of their mobile games are super aggressive).


As for the house part of ESO.. yeah.. lol. What do they have like 50 houses in the game now? You can own each one. Each one. . . And many of them have equal to or more item count max than FFXIV's. LOL?! It's a hilarious level of difference. (Although I still like to point out Wildstar here since they went into the thousands and had some extra power features as well, but I do like the concept of ESO that these houses have a location / belonging vs Wildstar which is more "find your own belonging").