Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[zlygork]

WoD didn't see any significant increase in subs, it actually bled them, and Shadowlands is still an open study at the moment. You know which expansion did see significantly more new subs?

That is false, WoD launch saw an increase of about 3M subs - subs that very quickly were lost back, mind you, but that probably wasn't in relation to the graphics.

[LisSquid]

That is false, WoD launch saw an increase of about 3M subs - subs that very quickly were lost back, mind you, but that probably wasn't in relation to the graphics.

I should have repeated new subs. The bulk of the subs coming in for WoD were returning players who were put off from MoP's theme. The number of brand new accounts that were created for WoD were much smaller than other expansions. Even BfA that had a leap in active subs saw fewer newly created accounts. As my argument was new classes, rather than graphics, are what draw in brand new players.

We're getting far off the topic here, though.

[TheMightyMollusk]

IMO, if they do add male Viera they should be shorter than female Viera, a sort of inverse of the sexual dimorphism in Au Ra.

Not to the absurd extent of Au Ra, but maybe a head shorter.

[WhiteArchmage]

If they had a smaller minimum and either the same or just a tad smaller max height, I'd be pretty fine. But no reverse Au Ra situation, please.

[Lauront]

I used to think customization and visuals were key to the health of a game, too. Runescape really did prove me wrong so I happily don my clown shoes about that. Also, new races and visuals were never the reason for a huge jump in subs on WoW. It was ALWAYS classes.

If someone is shopping for an mmo, what is going to be the one thing they look at first? It's going to be how their interact with the world. Visuals and cool races are important, but if you just do not get excited about any of the jobs FF has to offer, then why would you start? Just being a cat girl is not enough for most people. Like me! I only gave FF a shot because I saw astrologian in the HW promo and was in love.

New players are going to be content with things as they are cosmetically. The longer you play, the more you want some variety and sprucing up of your game of choice. Adding new customization is for player retention, not getting new subs.

They're not mutually exclusive propositions, and they're things which different teams work on. They've said many times that their constraints aren't so much actual money (in that they're not short of it), as it is labour, and implementing the high res texture conversion has been described by them as a rather time-consuming task. For a game with more "realistic" graphics like this, I do think the graphics will become a liability later down the line. Their art team lead even came out and said the one thing she would really like is a better graphics engine. A total overhaul is probably too costly, but it's not just us players who would like it.

Now if they're satisfied with a certain amount of subs, either where we currently are or a bit below this even, where they can break even without much more effort, then perhaps such changes won't be necessary, but it'd be a damn shame. So I'm in broad agreement with Yencat on this point, it does come down to a cost/benefit calculation, and I don't think they'll necessarily feel much of a pinch unless a strong competitor emerges. Which is why I put my point forward the way I did.

I tend to rate the game on multiple dimensions, and graphics/CC certainly are one of those. I wouldn't jump to another MMO simply because it looked better, but if it had good gameplay and better visuals, there's little holding me to this one. I find the story to be just about okay, and not too impressed with several aspects of 5.1-5.4, so it's not something I'm very drawn to these days. It does need meatier/more durable challenge content that perhaps falls intermediate between casual content and savage/ultimate raiding, as well. As an example, TESO is a game where I just don't like the visual style, and try as I may, it puts me off playing it. So I don't see it as either/or, as both matter to me.

WoD didn't see any significant increase in subs, it actually bled them, and Shadowlands is still an open study at the moment. You know which expansion did see significantly more new subs? Legion. Demon Hunters printed money, the same way DKs did back in Wrath.

I'm not entirely sure how FFXIV is doing on retaining ShB subs, but covid has been very good for mmo populations.

Back on topic: I'm hesitant to say we'll see any significant features added in 6.0. Maybe 6.1? If m viera and f hrothgar are on the table then I think the canary in the coalmine would be to see them roll out major customization updates for the races we have. It will mean they are putting resources into player models, which would make me hopeful that they are getting closer to the top of the "to-do" list.

XIV was currently at around 900k on the last Luckybancho survey, down from 1,2m on the prior one taken in August. There may have been another in between and I don't keep track of when there is a free trial or not, so unsure how that all affected it. I believe the breakdown of the newer ones shows they're able to attract newer players for a while (and it states it's difficult to determine to what extent it's due to the free trials), it's more subs between surveys they're showing a decline in, so continuing/returning subs where it's flagging a bit.

[Styrmwyda]

If they had a smaller minimum and either the same or just a tad smaller max height, I'd be pretty fine. But no reverse Au Ra situation, please.

Hey, if one race has to suffer a big sexual dimorphism with women being the shorter ones, so should another race with with men being the shorter ones. It's fair. Yes, as an Auri woman player I'm vindictive.

[Lauront]

I don't think two wrongs make a right is a good design philosophy.

[Destati]

Hey, if one race has to suffer a big sexual dimorphism with women being the shorter ones, so should another race with with men being the shorter ones. It's fair. Yes, as an Auri woman player I'm vindictive.

You have every right to be vindictive. I'm in the crowd that wishes female Au Ra weren't so small in stature (the height difference makes me rather uncomfortable honestly), and they resembled more how they did in the concept art. A few years back I remember the devs hinting about a potential 3rd race of Au Ra, which would be a perfect opportunity to give us tall Au Ra ladies.

That being said, I do not want there to be a reverse Au Ra situation with Viera, please. If anything make it an option to be shorter if people wish.

I don't think two wrongs make a right is a good design philosophy.

Exactly this.

[Juzjuzz]

All the other races have smaller females aniway. Getting the same thing all the time juste makes it more boring. It doesnt have to be extreme tho.

[Theodric]

As much as I wish that Raen and Xaela of both genders were closer to what they were depicted as in the original concept art, I'm pretty happy with how the men look overall. I would prefer not to see a reverse situation for male viera just for the sake of having one.

Hrothgar men are designed to be very niche. They're among the least played options for male characters. If Hrothgar women are added, I think it's fair to suggest that they'll also be very niche - because they're not likely to be conventionally attractive.

Female Viera are conventionally attractive and even accounting for the limitations of being unable to have many hairstyle or headgear they're a rather common sight and popular pick among players. I'd prefer not to see male Viera also be designed in a very niche manner. I'd prefer for them to be conventionally attractive in a similar vein to the likes of Midlander and Raen/Xaela men.

A solid compromise would be a rather extensive height slider, though even then...Yoshi-P has already ruled out a child-like design for Viera men.