Developers : Healer design mentality needs to change

[Anhra]

From the way i see it, the reason why we can't have nice things is because way too many people, and probably some dev's as well, prefer the efficiency aspect over the fun factor (which should be your main priority for playing any video game, otherwise it is just work which doesn't make it easier for you and the people within the community).

So instead of worrying about some dumb potency changes, it would be better to grant Jobs a better set of skills so that we can have proper gameplay that is actually fun and works at the same time. Worrying about something as trivial as "average clear times" is also just another way of saying that you don't even care about FFXIV as a game and you just stick arround for the social aspect and the MSQ (i don't blame anyone for choosing to do so, but at least have the decency to allow people who actually care for the game genuinely, to have their improvements on endgame content).

And as for the matter of improvement, the first step would be to admit that FFXIV, despite having a great story, lacks in the gameplay aspect in it's current state.

[Yeol]

And as for the matter of improvement, the first step would be to admit that FFXIV, despite having a great story, lacks in the gameplay aspect in it's current state.

100% Agree with this.

[Gemina]

From the way i see it, the reason why we can't have nice things is because way too many people, and probably some dev's as well, prefer the efficiency aspect over the fun factor (which should be your main priority for playing any video game, otherwise it is just work which doesn't make it easier for you and the people within the community).

So instead of worrying about some dumb potency changes, it would be better to grant Jobs a better set of skills so that we can have proper gameplay that is actually fun and works at the same time. Worrying about something as trivial as "average clear times" is also just another way of saying that you don't even care about FFXIV as a game and you just stick arround for the social aspect and the MSQ (i don't blame anyone for choosing to do so, but at least have the decency to allow people who actually care for the game genuinely, to have their improvements on endgame content).

And as for the matter of improvement, the first step would be to admit that FFXIV, despite having a great story, lacks in the gameplay aspect in it's current state.

A ways back, I was back and forth with another poster about optimization, because crazy black sheep-me decided to say that it isn't always about optimization in the context of vs fun. However, it was brought to my attention that some players get a great sense of enjoyment and accomplishment learning how to optimize not only rotations, but entire encounters, and that is fun to them. I think the same can be said about efficiency, which is really just another way to say "optimal".

Where I am going with that is the healer situation is a multifacted issue wherein resolving one problem creates another in its place; sometimes even several. One player can say, "I think X and Y would be a good idea." and many players will agree and follow suit; then there is a whole other set of healers who will disagree. It's the friggin congregation from ShB right here on the forum man. Literally. The green-DPS are like agents of Zodiark recalling another time and wanting it back, while Hydaelyn and the pure-minded healer currently have reign. And who says the game doesn't represent healers?

Anywho, despite how how things are, I do think the devs care that the healer mains in FFXIV enjoy playing their job(s) of choice, but it is unquestionably a difficult role to deal with design wise, and to do so with equal footing. There are a lot of things involved. For example with potency, they may have had to cut some corners when it comes to overall DPS. I am not sure how many DPS abilities there are between all the jobs in the game, but each one has to be tested again and again when making adjustments to content design. Healers having fewer DPS abilities will ease this up a bit.

Now I don't know if that is actually the case, but I bring it up as an example of an intangible they have to deal with that us as players may not realize. I am sure there are many. When looking at the healers overall, you can tell where these corners have been cut in comparison to the design of the DPS and tank jobs in the game, and it is just really unfortunate that it has to be the healers that suffer, but the devs likely see it as the role impacted the least by such design choices. Yes, they have said things like "Pure healer", and I see no reason why they cannot disclose more information when it comes to their design choices; but then I think, "Who's asking them?"

If this is truly the case, and I hope it is, then there is hope in 6.0. They did not fully acknowledge the balance issues with healing until late 4.0, and they went to work, but had to wipe the slate clean. They've had more time, and I think at the very least we can look forward to seeing what they do with that blank canvas. However, due to the polarity in the healer community, the dissatisfaction is unavoidable.

[ForteNightshade]

"Actually". lol

See, this is why we can't have nice things.
So that raiders can have their little e-peen contest while the overwhelming majority of the game gets made more boring.

I'm sorry, but as an AST main I find it laughable to say it's in the best place since 3.5.

Except it isn't the raid community asking for job simplification. Raiders have long asked for far more emphasise on healing in harder content not a single button "rotation". Raiders never claimed Dark Knight and Astro were "too hard" or that it was "too difficult" to manage Heavy Thrust or Straight Shot. If the developers listened to the raid community, Savage would be significantly harder, bosses wouldn't auto-position for a majority of their mechanics, jobs has a whole would return to a similar level of complexity they had in Heavensward and healers would either be full blown combat medics or fights themselves would demand substantially more healing.

So, no. It isn't the raid community making the game boring. Or even the more midcore demographic, to be fair. It's the casual playerbase who can't be bothered to learn how procs work, maintain buffs and perform at a decent pace who the dev team keeps listening to.

As for Astro specifically. In terms of overall power, you could easily make that argument. It offers the highest rDPS by no small margin, has near infinite MP and is the only Healer not punished for heavy movement. Gameplay wise is a other matter, and mostly boils down to whether you like the cards or not.

[QooEr]

I think the main issue with people mentioning class balance is that it's braindead easy to balance healers right now. Here, let me give you an example.

Remove all attack skills on all jobs, replace them with 1 single button with varying potency depending on the job:
Healer: 600 potency
Tanks: 600 potency
Ranged dps: 1000 potency
Casters: 1100 potency
Melee dps: 1150 potency

There, I just balanced all jobs numberswise, enjoy spamming 1 button

my point is raiders dont want this either, so i dont get the narrative that the current state of things is because of them. if i only resub to this game to play the combat content for hours on end i want those hours to be actually entertaining beyond week 1 prog. I dont want to press malefic for 9 hours a week. nearly nobody is really content with how healers play presently, including (or perhaps especially) raiders

[Dogempire]

my point is raiders dont want this either, so i dont get the narrative that the current state of things is because of them. if i only resub to this game to play the combat content for hours on end i want those hours to be actually entertaining beyond week 1 prog. I dont want to press malefic for 9 hours a week. nearly nobody is really content with how healers play presently, including (or perhaps especially) raiders

I don't blame raiders for it, I just think that it's not surprising that dpswise healers are pretty balanced since all healers follow the 1 dot 1 damage dps rotation.

I'd rather say the blame lies with SE's short-sightedness in not seeing that gutting job complexity to encourage new players to try a healer just pushes away the more experienced healers and makes them look for fulfilment in other roles.

[Anhra]

A ways back, I was back and forth with another poster about optimization, because crazy black sheep-me decided to say that it isn't always about optimization in the context of vs fun. However, it was brought to my attention that some players get a great sense of enjoyment and accomplishment learning how to optimize not only rotations, but entire encounters, and that is fun to them. I think the same can be said about efficiency, which is really just another way to say "optimal".

.....

If this is truly the case, and I hope it is, then there is hope in 6.0. They did not fully acknowledge the balance issues with healing until late 4.0, and they went to work, but had to wipe the slate clean. They've had more time, and I think at the very least we can look forward to seeing what they do with that blank canvas. However, due to the polarity in the healer community, the dissatisfaction is unavoidable.

The main issue is, that our healers (and tanks as well) are, in their current form, just the same Job copypasted multiple times.

AST's toolkit during stormblood, with the different card effects for every card, was a great thing and idea to be had and should have been focused on even more. Surely it would make the Job more difficult, especially with the fact that you never know what card you draw, but that would create a great "high risk, high reward healer" which has to deal what fate plays into his/her hands.

As for SCH, i think it should have gotten more focus on the Pet aspects (just because our lord and savior yoshi p. tells us that he doesn't like pets, won't mean it is a bad thing). In my opinion, keeping both Selene and Eos unique from one another was a great start. If i had to make a suggestion, then i would say that Eos should be the scholar main source and catalyst of the Scholars healing abilities, while Selene, is being used for damaging enemies directly. The Scholar itself, would only keep physick as his direct way of providing healing, but instead, have ways to manipulate the fairy abilities in different and multiple ways, while having a more DoT focused toolkit of attacking.

As for everyones favorite healer WHM, designwise it could stay as the straightforward healer it is even today, but with a few quality of life changes, such as getting more focus on his nature based skills, both for healing and attacking (like water and wind magic). Those could also be provided in the form of telegraph's to create a more fleshed out way of playing. I would even say that potencywise, WHM should be the strongest of the three healers but having instead the drawback of having longer castingtime compared to the other two.

[technole]

Savage is the healer parity barometer not because it's a privilege. It's actually where they design content that uses EVERY skill a healer has. Fatebreaker Savage cycle damage actually has a nasty bleed while more burst damage comes out. Where you actually need to have a heals and HoTs lined up for the first thunder hit and then another for the second hit otherwise you will kill the party because the bleed tick hurts so bad. The normal mode just throws burst damage that a simple HoT heals. That's what savage is like, where you actually have to have a plan for your skills, along with the raid group using things like Addle or Reprisal to lessen the damage.

You cannot compare dungeon or normal content to that where you can practically get away with an Indom or some Aspected Helios and be on your merry way. Heal and DPS checks are real in savage, they are not in most casual content anymore.

Astro is still the best in raid dps damage, along with also being among the best opening healer because of cards, divination, star and oGCDs immediately available followed by Scholar with Chain and pre-pull mitigation and fairy. White Mage to this day still is in last place when it comes to healing opener damage without consuming a GCD. Lilies take time to generate, Asylum is a HoT, and assize is mainly used for opener damage, holding it too long stuns MP gain and can be overall lost damage in a fight.

I am in desperate need of damage buttons. I don't care if the average DF healer can't find the time to cast a single holy. I do and I'm bored. The only reason I play AST now is that at least cards give me something to do besides spamming malefic. I feel joy on the occasion I have to asp helios. Whm feels like walking through sand until 80, and I know it's only because smashing that misery button is like putting a token in the serotonin machine.

I spam learning parties just to feel something. :/

Heavensward was a good time for healers, a real damage rotation along with Cleric Stance.

[StrykerGaming]

ogcd damage is an idea but on WHM it would exacerbate the current problem of not enough weaving windows to play smoothly.

That said the general idea of having heals and dps buttons is completely correct.

Not one of the "healers should only heal" crowd own up to the fact they need to do damage in order to clear their job quests or msq if they didn't deal damage.

I healed all the time in other games and during any raid or dungeon I DPS'd during a burn phase on the boss(es). I did; however, keep my eye on my tank as they were keeping aggro and healed as necessary. Should this not be the same way for all healers in this game too? I know I follow the same method of play so far on my WHM and SCH. Buff w/regen or equivalent, single heal/hot, cleanse as required, aoe for everyone, and DPS. Rinse and repeat. However, I do not engage in DPS when we're dealing with mobs, especially when tanks in this game love to round up 6 to 9 plus targets to tank and smash. That gets a bit trying in low level dungeons when your sycn'd down to 2 healing abilities! LOL

[Dogempire]

Snip.

Fatebreaker is actually a great example of how to do healing-focused fights in FFXIV and to force healers to heal more and dps less.

Only problem is, the average pug healer wouldn't be able to handle damage on that level, parties would be wiping left and right because of it, tanks and dps would basically be praying for a pair of competent healers every time they queue up, and overall it would be super unfair to the healers to have that much pressure be put on them just for the average DF clear.