Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[MoofiaBossVal]

I agree with reivaxe; the Navi from Avatar most resemble the mural, and feel the most naturalistic IMO. The Hrothgar women in the mural look very graceful, with a slightly feline shaped face. The older Navi women from Avatar, like the elder shaman, look like that.

Midlander female - teenage/early 20s vanilla cute
Highlander female - slightly older, slightly more mature, mid-late 20s vanilla beauty.
Lalafell female - little people cute
Miq'ote female - teenage anime girl cute flavor 1 (more vanilla leaning)
Au female - teenage anime girl cute flavor 2
Roegadyn female - older, little more rugged woman look, mid-late 20s, not very sexy or cute.
Viera female - elegant sexy rich girl, early to mid 20s

The Hrothgar woman mural/Navi look feels like it could slide into an older, graceful woman look, like late 20s/early 30s, maybe 40s.

[Nestama]

Edit: Forgot to quote but you probably know who is being spoken to about this subject lol

Sure, however that still doesn't really fit the bill for an abomination to me, sure if something had a human body but a slug face I'd probably consider that an abomination, like I get that full on animal faces are generally what full on furries enjoy, i've certainly seen my fair share of fan art. But looking at the Bless/Eastern style cat people I certainly don't look at them and go Eugh wtf is that.. Guess this is something that would need me to be in the same mindset of a furry I guess?

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

Pretty much, yeah. Like I look at the male Varg and they're not really that appealing. They have the hands and feet that appeal to the furry in me, but the face... it's like they started with a human face, threw on a cat/lion nose and ears and then called it a day. It's uncanny valley and I do not like it.
Female Varg face is just FFXI's Mithra.

[AnAverageAspie]

So is this the new trend? Post blue people on here? Well, here's the blue cat the mural slapped into the game. This is female Hrothgar, good night! xp :

Feel like everyone interested in the topic or hopeful of playing them someday should actively be looking for examples of what they could look like based on what we know.

so I don't think anyone who likes how FF14 looks should worry.

Their hope is judged just from the mural alone. Further examples are just making that outcome look even worse towards people that still don't like it in the first place. We seen the mural, we see that its stark contrast with male Hrothgar yet some or many were hopeful for something "new".
And reactions, especially in my furry circles see it including examples. As either mildly uncomfortable(bigger "beastly" male>slimmer "more human" women) or just irritating in regards to business practices and obvious engine limitations the Devs won't shut up about. Now? I found the cultural media studies on the why for fantasy race designs to be more fascinating.

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

*plays a tune*
Its devisive which is ironic since Hrothgar was a lion in black sheeps clothing insulted for not being the male viera or being the four horselions of the apocalypses for the expansion, "they brought furries into FFXIV!!!". However, almost 2 years can adapt a persons opinion. And with how the Devs tip toed in not firmly confirming or denying a chance for the opposite genders to possibly appear they inherently gave an excuse for the forums/reddit to theorycraft.
Now. People praise Hrothgar despite its flaws for being the "better Roegadyn". Using its base model to change the mesh and textures. Yet the race has actually given more spotlight for Roebros in LGBT circles. Even Viera got some props for having higher quality textures and not so girly default emotes. The ideas for opposite genders were off to the races, male viera concept arts already known since heavensward so people focused on Hrothgar.

One section, saw that Hrothgar was a big, strong and hearty race. Focusing on their lore as misunderstood people for their imposing faces as they struggled to speak their languages. While Females would be written as a minority to male counterparts, not only will that get lore dissonance like male Miqote and Dusk Elezens. They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land.
Add onto the fact Hrothgar was an improvement off a pre existing unpopular race, Improving with a opposite gender of said pre existing unpopular race seemed legit possible. Female Hrothgar were also respected as the queens, charging their armies onto the battlefield against the Alag. To many, they sound like big, strong and hearty women. Big, curvy and having the same if not tweaked heads of the males.

Section two. Most know majority of the females were rigged and meshed off the female midlander body. For a way to cut corners, they decided to to use the very same body for Elezen and Female Roegadyn. Creating a division of players that see the imperfections of textures and proportions on them instead of making a unique rig (seriously, this game only 50gb, ESO is almost on the verge of doubling it. More textures or another model for races is not going to fill up peoples hard drives)
And when the devs first unique race was made for FFXIV. The females were using the same midlander body. Shadowbringers comes along, Viera uses it again while male Hrothgar uses the unique Roe one. So by analyzing repetition. They assume the female would be the same. Bozja art being slim but with no unique head like the males.

I rooted for the former since I was excited for Hrothgar and not interested in female viera. Especially cringing over the coincidental PR take of releasing a beastly male race alongside a slim human looking female race as ways to "compliment" the player experience. But I didn't think they could do it twice

Female Varg face is just FFXI's Mithra.

Don't forget that Galka's are just as hairy/blockhead facewise to Male Varg minus the colored peach fuzz on their cheeks.

[Nestama]

How dare you. Galka are adorable.

[reivaxe]

But looking at the Bless/Eastern style cat people I certainly don't look at them and go Eugh wtf is that.. Guess this is something that would need me to be in the same mindset of a furry I guess?

In regards to the body shape, what's the general consensus? Same as the Bozja art, Curvy but slim? Or do most people want something different than what was shown?

It's just that poster's hyperbole, it's got nothing to do with being furry or not. Like, someone may wish they were more animal in the face but there's nothing off putting or "wrong" with it that you would only see if you like furrys. Bashing the Varg as "just human heads on a beastly body" and praising Khajiit for being ... photo realistic cat heads stapled onto realistic reg smuck bodies is just strange. Most furries want a marriage of the 2 to varying degrees that differ between person to person, to see animal and human features in the body and face. (It's fairly common for me to find Eastern furry art where the character has paw jellies even if they lack the full on animal feet).

Breaks my heart that EQN didn't come out, this is a proper example of what a cat man could be.


At the end of the day furries just like anthros, the degree to with one prefers their flavor of it is up to them. There's nothing inherently wrong with Varg. It's like how I feel vanilla Khajiit are unnerving AF and don't like em yet I have nothing but love for every style of furry art and MMOs like WoW and Second Life furries.


As for the body ... idk.
Reading through like 1 person wants them to be JACKED and as swoll or swoller than the males (they prob just memeing though) and a few femroe want them to just be Femroe with animal heads ( I was a Femroe when HW was revealed and I wanted Draggo girls to be Dragon Femroe if the devs wanted to do Dragons over Viera so I understand the desire).

Most people seem to either quietly accept this - vvv

https://pasteboard.co/JJe4ZEq.png
some notes on hrothgals v femroe
slimmer, shorter (even more so since the mural seems to cut off the femroe at the ankles, but hrothgar has her feet), with prominent cat ears compared to the males
with this scientific analysis i can therefore conclude that they will be taller, bald miqote.

Or completely ignore this single bit of official art of them in favor oh pushing their own desires on them.

Me, I just want them to be attractive cause that's what the dudes are and I want people to play them unlike what happened to Femroe ... so I'm loving the art that shows them having a slim, feminine hour-glass figure.

I'm starting to feel like this is becoming more of a "Beast vs Furry" thing the more replies I see.
Like, some people seem to be under the impression that male Hrothgar are a beast race with a capital "GRRRRR!!" and I'm like naah ... they aint Charr, they a furry race. They're sexy af and the females should be to ... because everything in this game is either hot/ cute or pretty/ handsome. So it's kinda strange seeing some people want them to be "beast" so that they're not "waifus" as if you can't make a cute or sexy anthro head. And couple that with the desire for a Femroe bod and non-waifu head or a swoll AF bod and yeah ... seems like some people just want something not even most furry fans would enjoy.

Ever since I did Bozja I've been far more interested in picking apart this art as you can tell (Changed it to Na'vi cause people seem to get hung up on the bald Varg. Plus it's a good reminder that cat features on a mostly human face isn't something that started with "Cats")



As for body types I'd like ... fan art from other games time!


I thought it would be really fun if they were feminine and flat but pear shaped. Interesting shape that no non-lala has. But IDC, they could be slightly taller 1-step-more-furry miqote or lovely lions like this ..




Tall, Short ... idc.
I'd take em so long as they're as attractive as the dudes.

Edit-

So is this the new trend? Post blue people on here? Well, here's the blue cat the mural slapped into the game. This is female Hrothgar, good night!

I mean, that gif of Gumball's mother also looks like the art given to us so that's cool. (forgot about that show)

Their hope is judged just from the mural alone. Further examples are just making that outcome look even worse towards people that still don't like it in the first place. We seen the mural, we see that its stark contrast with male Hrothgar yet some or many were hopeful for something "new".
And reactions, especially in my furry circles see it including examples. As either mildly uncomfortable(bigger "beastly" male>slimmer "more human" women) or just irritating in regards to business practices and obvious engine limitations the Devs won't shut up about. Now? I found the cultural media studies on the why for fantasy race designs to be more fascinating.

If you're talking about my examples I'm not trying to convert anyone, I just know not everyone is as good at visualization as I am so I'm trying to help with visual aids. Which ever way people want to take it they can, but the notion I remember floating around not too long ago that the art isn't detailed enough is just not so. Plus I got tired of trying to explain concepts like exaggerating features to better express emotions (seeing as it's a principle of animation that may be hard to grasp if just tossed out there).

As for my circles, the Femroe are pouting ... but for the longest people on the webz have been pointing at renders of the now called "Bless Varg" and this fan art Ronso ...

as their "Yes! THIS! Give me my Hrothgar QUEEN SE!!!" (Looks a lot like the art to ... I should add that in the future).

Outside of that? I just sip tea and wonder things. To me this was never going to be the time were they try to subvert expectations in gender, Femroe as is are so rarely played for such a clear reason that there was no way they would try to make a Furry Female unappealing to the masses by doubling down on the Femroe features that make them unwanted by who don't play Femroe. Hrothgar males are attractive, so they would try to make the females attractive to.

To me it's like "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time". Draggos were not a fluke, no amount of people sighing over the differences means anything because they're extremely popular and the people who play them enjoy them enough as is so it doesn't matter that HW me was annoyed that the girls weren't Femroe with horns. Not 1 female in this game has the option to look as hard or monstrous or mature as their male counter-parts faces and if Viera male are ever added to the game I'm sure they will have 1 older/ harder/ rugged looking face as that is how they do things for all males. That art has a Femroe that has every key feature shared by the 4 Femroe faces, logic would say that the Female Hrothgar in game (if they ever come) would have 4 versions of the face in that art.

It's fascinating to me that people ignore all this, but I've been low-key trying to temper expectations since SHB release cause none of the math for what people say they "should be" adds up in practice. Like ... we're all playing the same game where it's actually hard to make an "ugly" female unless you try to pick clashing colors. A game where with 2 mins of effort in CC you can have a waifu no matter which female you pick. A game where instead of being off-putting brutes/ savages the furry dudes are just straight up sexy. It shouldn't be shocking that they seem to be going this way with Female Hrothgar in a JPN made game.

I truly hope we get to see them someday. :/

The ideas for opposite genders were off to the races, male viera concept arts already known since heavensward so people focused on Hrothgar.

Imma have to stop you right there. Maybe you're talking about some other site you're on but here? The Viera thread is MANY times longer than this because of endless bickering over what they would look like. I remember this stuff spilled over to Reddit once, where someone came there trying to recruit players into their Viera Male war. There were 3 main factions it seemed, those that wanted tall and strong build, those who wanted tall and slim handsome build and ... those who wanted them to be the height of and look like Children (maybe a 4th that just wanted them Male Miqote size? IDK). That person was laughed off of reddit because most people don't care and were getting annoyed with the bun fans whining about it everywhere but HERE? Nope, it didn't end there.

The war raged on until the great YP parted the clouds and whispered a sweet yet firm statement. That was ... "NO, we're not making effin children or child looking characters playable, full stop". That knocked out a major faction but the war still boiled between the others for many months. I've stopped checking on it so IDK which side won.

This thread though? Everyone assumed "They gonna look like Ronso cause they Ronso (they're not really ronso..)/ They gonna look like Cat headed Femroe cause of rigs (that's not how that works ..)" and no one but me and a few other really questioned the status quo thought on the matter as everyone kinda agreed ... and "Femroe with animal head" don't get that blood pumping for most given the tiny amount who play them ... and as such the thread gets far less fan art than Viera. That's why this has been a much more civil thread, everyone just points at Ronso and the convo stops.

This thread saw it's first big spike in forever with Bozja art talk which is around the time you came. At this point it seems everyone's in the process of coming to terms with it or ignoring it (which is strange AF to me. I'm sure Viera players would be gushing if they saw art depicting brand new hair styles and the Viera Males would be beside themselves to see in game art of their bun bois ... seeing as concept art is not final. It would be a ray of hope that they may actually come. Here, it's like I gotta keep reminding people it's a thing maybe we should look at. Like, I find the fact that they're bald to be a sign that they simply don't have manes and may actually have reg hair or "wigs")

They would need to be just as beastly as their male counterparts to have reasonable plight as fleeing immigrants shunned for their features in a new land.

No, they don't. That's a leap. The males outnumber the females by a ton so if the dudes look scary people they will struggle to get along. Plus the females are rarely even seen cause of their numbers.

[Allegor]

When I used female khajiit as example I didn't mean as in, literally a khajiit because I also agree that ESO is rather dull and stuck in a strictly "realistic" medieval fantasy aesthetic, but it's closer in concept than say, WoW, which has a considerably more cartoony artstyle, or Bless where they're human women that happen to have fur on their face.

Hrothgar men are furries, they can't, or rather shouldn't, back out and try and making the women more humanoid just to make them more conventionally appealing, considering the race itself not being conventional was the whole point of them being added in the first place. At the same time, I don't think anyone asking them to be beastly is asking for a "female Charr", which would be impossible for the game's rig anyways, just to be on par with the males.

Anyways, as I said before, as long as they actually look feline and not just taller Miqo'te, I don't mind.

Also, semi unrelated: I personally don't play femroe because while I do like their overall aesthetics, they...didn't really tried with their emotes and movements, it just feels like a Midlander who got hit by puberty too hard, unlike Viera who are stoic yet classy women (and are ironically treated as "too masculine" for it, guess no one's ever happy.)

[SturmChurro]

Also, semi unrelated: I personally don't play femroe because while I do like their overall aesthetics, they...didn't really tried with their emotes and movements, it just feels like a Midlander who got hit by puberty too hard, unlike Viera who are stoic yet classy women (and are ironically treated as "too masculine" for it, guess no one's ever happy.)

If someone thinks viera emotes are masculine, they have no clue what they are talking about, in my opinion. I think many also think so because of their height. A lot of people are just used to their tiny au ra, and miqo'te. It's that whole tall argument again.

[reivaxe]

When I used female khajiit as example I didn't mean as in, literally a khajiit because I also agree that ESO is rather dull and stuck in a strictly "realistic" medieval fantasy aesthetic, but it's closer in concept than say, WoW, which has a considerably more cartoony artstyle, or Bless where they're human women that happen to have fur on their face.

I know we're not exactly swimming in games that let people play or CC a proper furry but this is why I avoid using western MMOs, the aesthetics are nothing close to FF14 and when you hear "Khajiit" you get a very clear mental picture.

Hrothgar men are furries, they can't, or rather shouldn't, back out and try and making the women more humanoid just to make them more conventionally appealing, considering the race itself not being conventional was the whole point of them being added in the first place. At the same time, I don't think anyone asking them to be beastly is asking for a "female Charr", which would be impossible for the game's rig anyways, just to be on par with the males.

I've seen "make them look just like the men but slimmer/ but with boobs/ make them just as manly so that they're like the charr in gender differences!" a number of times from people which adds to my "Beast vs Furry" thoughts.

As for what they should or shouldn't do I again point to their record. Draggos were not just an attempt at a reptile race but at the time ... they were designed to be (you guessed it!) the most beastly race. And that they were, they had strange eye ish that no one had, they're covered in scale patchs, they had these crazy big horns and darkened out eyes and imposing presence and were the 2nd tallest!
Welp, the men were. They striped away ever bit of that imposing nature from the females, they were made 2nd smallest female with pretty/ elegant horns and big bright eyes and dainty damsel animations. On paper they were still more "beastly" than any other female because of the scales and eye ish but ... yeah ... they decided to make them modeled after Jpop Idols at some point in development for "reasons" I can only assume to be "this will please more people in our game" and regardless of if they were right or not the race is hella popular and the females are more popular than the dudes. They have always been more willing to push the extremes with males and pull alll the way back on females to keep the pretty, be it dragos or Highlander eyebrows or Femroe not being the size and shape of a fridge with looong arms.

Just look at the Hrothgar manes, they were willing to pull that crap with the males. Not 1 bone in my body thinks they would take away hair from females even if they only give em a few hair styles like Viera.

Anyways, as I said before, as long as they actually look feline and not just taller Miqo'te, I don't mind.

Cool.

[SturmChurro]

I know we're not exactly swimming in games that let people play or CC a proper furry but this is why I avoid using western MMOs, the aesthetics are nothing close to FF14 and when you hear "Khajiit" you get a very clear mental picture.

Khajiit used to be cat girls/cat boys, then they switched to the more beast-like 'Suthay-raht' in Morrowind, and kept that type since.



They still exist as one of the many breeds of khajiit in the lore, technically. Just can't play as them anymore.

As for what they should or shouldn't do I again point to their record. Draggos were not just an attempt at a reptile race but at the time ... they were designed to be (you guessed it!) the most beastly race. And that they were, they had strange eye ish that no one had, they're covered in scale patchs, they had these crazy big horns and darkened out eyes and imposing presence and were the 2nd tallest!

I wonder if they just didn't want to deal with custom heads and their limitations at the time. Unlike with hrothgar in ShB.

[Yencat]

Not 1 bone in my body thinks they would take away hair from females even if they only give em a few hair styles like Viera.

I honestly don't see why they couldn't do just that.

There are obviously differences between the genders of other races, but no other race has such a massive discrepancy in terms of customization options between genders as female Hrothgar being able to freely change their hair would be compared to the men. Highlander brows and Femroe build differences aren't even in the same ballpark.

They could still make them "prettier" or whatever they deem to be more appealing and different looking from the males while working with the same limitations they have.

I don't necessarily think they should as I don't think it was a good idea even for male Hrothgar, but there's no reason the females couldn't work much the same way and still appeal to their niche.