Opinions: Should tanks work for aggro?

[Absurdity]

What irks me is that they really didn't.

What they did do is remove / reduce the number of buffs that actually go out.

Except then there would still be about the same difference in dps contribution between tanks and dps as there was in SB and HW, because everyone lost those buffs.

The difference between a warrior in HW and a BLM was about 25-33%
The difference between a warrior in SB and a BLM was about 30-35%
The difference between a warrior in ShB and a BLM is closer to 40-45%

This assumes both are of equal level in skill

Our level 1 trait "Tank Mastery" says "grants a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute"...what it actually does though is literally reduce our attack power modifier.
Are they "intentionally trying to keep tanks down?" Who knows, but there is a noticeable decline in tank's overall dps contribution. Combine that with the added decline in responsibility or actual influence on a fight that tanks have and you see an issue.

[ItMe]

[graphs snipped for space]

I think most hardworking tanks and healers would be more than happy if their damage outputs overlapped with that of lower skill dps players. The semantics around how it's done doesn't matter.

Those are some useful and sobering charts, thank you for sharing them.
N00b question, but where did these charts come from?

[Kabooa]

Except then there would still be about the same difference in dps contribution between tanks and dps as there was in SB and HW, because everyone lost those buffs.

The lost buffs were folded back into the jobs that brought them. Then each role was given a baseline to be tuned around.

This is why you see the least relative increase to Astrologian, while White mage was massive. Likewise for Warrior and the other tanks.

Your level 1 Trait Tank Mastery was basically "Your accessories have strength on them, what did you think would happen?" Pretending Heavensward was intended levels of damage completely ignored that tank tuning ignored the ability to put on 25% more strength than intended.

[Lyth]

Nobody cares what the devs 'intended'. This is a product. If you can't sell tanking and healing in this game to its players, it doesn't have a future.

Or, go the next step, and turn us all into dps. Can sell plenty of mogstation glamours that way.

[Kabooa]

Or, go the next step, and turn us all into dps.

Lets see.

No header graphs.
DPS comment.
Doom saying.
Keeps referring to a time period that was nearly immediately rectified by the next tier.

If you derogatively call me a black mage, you'll fill my bingo card.

[Lyth]

Not really sure what your criticism here is. You claimed without proof that there haven't been progressive reductions in the relative tank raid dps contribution compared to dps jobs. Multiple people have explained to you why you're wrong. Nothing more to say here.

[Kabooa]

Not really sure what your criticism here is. You claimed without proof that there haven't been progressive reductions in the relative tank raid dps contribution compared to dps jobs. Multiple people have explained to you why you're wrong. Nothing more to say here.

You compared two different measuring metrics to each other. The equivalent of this is saying cars in the EU go faster than cars in the USA because they use KM/H and America uses Eagles Per Hamburger.

The graphs have no header, meaning anyone who wishes to look at them have to comb through everything. This is laziness at best and misdirection at worst.

Multiple people have shown they can look at a graph and go 'wtf', but never actually look into it to find out why.

You keep saying "Contribution". Contribution is what gets measured now. Tanks were always among the most selfish of the classes. Their contribution didn't mirror their PDPS result.

[Lyth]

The charts compare actual dps across fights in Gordias to actual dps in Eden's Promise. If this was a mixed comparison (i.e. adps then to rdps now), the differences would be even more visually dramatic, as tanks don't have any raid damage buffs at present. You can check this for yourself.

If you don't know something, the proper thing to do is to ask.

[Kabooa]

If you don't know something, the proper thing to do is to ask.

Include your headers and I wouldn't have to.

I'll concede my mistake on point one.

Edit: Actually going to rescind that concession, on account that, while waiting for this party to fill, I toyed with the headers to find the graphs you linked.

It's ADPS. ADPS =/= PDPS, so they're still two different measuring metrics.

[ItMe]

You compared two different measuring metrics to each other. The equivalent of this is saying cars in the EU go faster than cars in the USA because they use KM/H and America uses Eagles Per Hamburger.

The graphs have no header, meaning anyone who wishes to look at them have to comb through everything.

This is a good point.
The numbers themselves had different weights and meant different things in each expac.
You can't just look at which number is bigger in a vacuum and decide from there. It also depends on how much HP the bosses had. It depends on what marks the game was asking people to perform at. It depends on what kind of numbers the game is balanced around.
This is a good point. Looking at numbers across expacs makes things fuzzy, esp because SQEX changes up a lot of the backend math between expacs what with so much of the game's systems changing from our kits to how they mess with basic stats.