Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

[Fukuro]

It's both funny and annoying how fem Hrothgar get treated. "Yes, they exist, there's quite a few of them... off-screen... you can't see them, but my wife says hi." "Yeah, uh, the Horthgar queen? uhhh"

"She's a Roegadyn, you see, the title is just given TO the queen, and that particular one you see was a Roegadyn... yeah."

Could it be that they aren‘t ready yet? (if they are going to plan releasing them with the 6.0 expansion)
weren‘t male hrothgars also showed only after female vieras because they weren‘t ready to be shown, if my memory serves me right? maybe that could be some kind of built up until the reveal?

[reivaxe]

Yeah, I think male hrothgar has a lot of appeal though, other than the "fixed" male roe body, that would make players want to play them over roe. They are THE male beast race, and they generally look pretty decent. Male roe on the other hand suffer from those really odd proportions, and look really weird.

Yes, they do have appeal far beyond being "fixed" Roe. To me it's clear that they're a successful attempt to appeal to "certain types" of western furrys that are drawn into fantasy settings.

Female hrothgar, yeah, they wouldn't have to be super masculine, but I feel like they would have to be a little bit though. For the whole aesthetic. Preferably they would stand upright, and have some nice neutral (neither feminine or masculine) custom animations/emotes. I think they would look kind of weird if they were too feminine, or soft, if I'm being honest. So miqo'te 2.0, would hopefully be a no go.

I think I bump against people a lot on the topic of Female Hrothgar because I try to look at what the devs do and want to do or have done vs trying to force everything to make some evens-stevens sense.

Like, to me that art of them is all the hard evidence we have to go on right now and it's clearly a very feminine form compared to the Femroe in the art so I don't think they will look masculine. You seem to think "they would have to be a little bit though, For the whole aesthetic" (Maybe instead of Masculine you mean athletic? Masculine would suggest they're not just fit like thighlanders and maybe harder than Viera but also look manly in appearance) but what is the aesthetic they're going for ultimately? Cause you can classify every race in the game as something.

The last full race they released was Au Ra. People meme about the gender differences but that's the interesting part. The core point of the Au Ra race isn't to be tall or short or imposing or dainty ... they were made because SE wanted to make a reptilian race. That's the point of the race, to be the reptilian race (that also looks east Asian). That's why the dudes are allowed to be tall and have imposing, monstrous features like the darkened eyes and giant tipped horns/ the REALLY scaley faces yet they based the females on Jpop Idols.
The point of the race, the common elements between the 2 genders, is being a reptilian/ demonic race with scales/ horn ears/ tails and color eye things. The men clearly look far more imposing than the docile, dainty, small females but they share that reptilian aesthetic.

This brings me to Hrothgar and Viera. I have a LOT of images of furry art so spoiler time...

IMO Viera are clearly supposed to be the tall, super model types as their beautiful and height are the only things that make them different.

Hrothgar? They're not the "biggest/ buffest", that's Roe (Hroths not even that tall either ... Au Ra males are taller. Hroths are the 3rd tallest males).
Looking at what they are/ what's the point to them/ why are they here it's cause they're "the furry race". The point seems to be to make an "attractive beast/ Furry Race".

That's what I gather looking at them in game..


Looking at their concept art ...


and comparing that to this type of (commonly gay leaning) western furry art ...


With that in mind I'm personally inclined to see them as Au Ra, were the genders don't have to "match" in size, shape and demeaner cause the point is to make an "attractive furry" race and what goes into making an attractive furry isn't the same for both genders. Basically, just go to Furaffinity (I will NOT link to it ..) and see why I think that if they bothered making a female Hrothgar they would prob want to make them feminine if they want furries to like em ... cause they nailed the "Bara-furry" look for the males.

If the above common bara style of furry art looks so much like what Hrothgar males turned out to be then I don't see how something like this ..


Or this..




Wouldn't fit. All are much closer to this art than any dude shape regardless.

Being cat women would be all they need to fit in with the males tbh, just like how the girl draggos fit in with the dudes by simply having scales and horns mostly.


So yeah, I think Female Hrothgar will just be treated as all females are. I assume they will try to make an attractive, feminine female with animations that touch on some trope or characteristic that isn't seen in the current females. (Expressive animations cause of the animal features)

You seem to feel otherwise, I respect it but disagree.

Seems we can both agree they wont be hunched at least. Hunched with boobs is a full on nope, would look baaaad and be hard to model gear around

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

I personally will be completely satisfied as long as fem hrots arent female miqote cosplaying hrotgar tbh

(Late Response)

Thats what Im saying.
Cute Kawaii soft faced, or even worse-human faced/Miqote 2.0

They should have muzzles and be 100% Beast just like the Males.

[SturmChurro]

..

I still think that mosaic is really basic. Even if we take it as that being exactly what they would look like, they would be like the second tallest female race in the game. Just the way sizes work in this game alone, they would be pretty big. They could go for like a furry supermodel look, I guess? Similar to viera. Considering if they kept the body shape in that image, they would have less broad shoulders; a more hourglass body shape, so maybe? Again, agreeing that tall isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Well, I think there is a difference between athletic and masculine. Athletic is like, viera. Viera look athletic, they have an athletic looking body. Highlander looks athletic too, but has some aggressive animations. Roe is just plain masculine. By masculine, I meant more like behaviorally. Why I brought up animations. I don't know, that's just how I see hrothgar. I don't think hrothgar females would get the same treatment au ra got in comparison to their males. In a perfect world, they would release closer to highlander females, rather than roe. It would certainly fit the aesthetic better too, in my opinion.

I'll admit, I don't really know much, if anything, about the furry community. I didn't even know about baras until some guy brought it up here on the forums. I guess I am still pretty innocent. Pretty sure hrothgar wouldn't look like any of those images, even if we took the mosaic. The little bit of face alone we got, looks aggressive. I see them as being really proud; strong-willed females.

Most definitely, it would be a travesty if they made them hunched over. I don't think they would do that anyway. Most times I see a bestial race, if anything it's usually just the male that's hunched over, or more bestial.

[reivaxe]

I still think that mosaic is really basic. Even if we take it as that being exactly what they would look like, they would be like the second tallest female race in the game. Just the way sizes work in this game alone, they would be pretty big.

Don't really wanna beat a dead horse but as this post illustrates ..

https://pasteboard.co/JJe4ZEq.png
some notes on hrothgals v femroe
slimmer, shorter (even more so since the mural seems to cut off the femroe at the ankles, but hrothgar has her feet), with prominent cat ears compared to the males
with this scientific analysis i can therefore conclude that they will be taller, bald miqote.

Though the art isn't super detailed it does go out of it's way to compare the 2.

Also, Femroe are a freakish exception to the rules of scaling, they have the biggest gap between max and min.
If we're trying to do guessy math, the only example we have of a Femroe connected to the 1 in that pic is Misija who is at a 50% height according to Garland tools. This puts her at 207cms or 6ft 9in if my math is correct, just a tiny bit taller than the 50% Hrothgar male height of 6ft 8.5ins. Looking at the art the hrothgar females are decently shorter than the femroe and it seems safe to assume they would be shorter than the males.

That's ... if you wanna do guess work math. If you say screw it and just try to say they mirror the relationship the Hrothgar males have with Roebros you would just have to assume "the tallest Female Hrothgar is still shorter than the shortest Femroe" which would basically be Viera/ Highlander level which would still make em tall. Femroe have stupid big range for scaling, assuming the Hrothgar height over all from that is ... prob the least reliable thing you can take away from that art other than "Female Hrothgar are shorter than Femroe". Can't say HOW short compared to other females as we don't know how tall that Femroe is.

(Sorry for the rant and math, it's just something that stuck out to me the moment I saw it in game. Cause ... as someone who has played max height Femroe for years and has seen Min Femroe I was instantly interested in the height comparison. Cause there's a massive difference in Femroe heights so depending on if that's min or max or 50 Femroe changes a lot)

Highlander looks athletic too, but has some aggressive animations. Roe is just plain masculine. By masculine, I meant more like behaviorally.

Animation wise I have no clue which way they will go other than "expressive (cause without a full on human face you have to use the body to tell a story).
IMO you can basically label every Female's persona/ animation in this game by arvge Anime tropes. Always thought it would be fun if they had a Sukeban feel for Female Hrothgar but if they are actually going for the furry crowd they may just try to 1 up the Miqote "Protag/ extrovert" feel like how Viera kinda 1 up the Elezen's elegant and reserved persona until it became ... annoyed student console president.

[Styrmwyda]

If not a Hrothgar lady, then some similar "beastly" race exclusive to women would be nice as well.

[SturmChurro]

..

Viera is my favorite race (still), so if they were a similar height as them, I think that's like the perfect margin. Highlanders at minimum height are actually kind of short, well, average, for females.. I feel like that would be too short for them, but I probably have a much different picture in mind when I think of female hrothgar than you.

I just assumed they would all be default height (50) in the mosaic, I don't really see why they would make it some random number. I BARELY ever see femroe in game, but when I do they are quite... gigantic. I usually play au ra at like 25 height, just so they are like an inch shorter than miqo'te. When I grudgingly play miqo'te I have them at minimum. I probably can't really judge their (femroe) height very well, admittedly. I need to start playing viera a lot again, always feels weird in cutscenes not playing one, but I liked their height, perfect at 30 IMO, but I digress..

In my mind, I don't know about expressive. I kind of feel like they would be kind of like the viera situation all over again, rather than playful - like miqo'te. I picture them as being really strong and proud. I kind of picture them as leaders of the hrothgar, rather than the males, that's probably why. I picture them with a "royal" kind of vibe.

[AnAverageAspie]

Without male Hrothgar's to scale with, they look smaller by mental comparison. I almost forgot that height might not be taken into consideration. Max height? mid height? Since character creator starts you out in mid height, it would seem odd to be the opposite here. Ideally, their max height should at least have their scalp reach up to the males upper shoulders or be exact same possible height but un slouched.

I don't think hrothgar females would get the same treatment au ra got in comparison to their males.

Most times I see a bestial race, if anything it's usually just the male that's hunched over, or more bestial.

Au Ra is such an eyesore now in hindsight with how the newer races were implemented, The former was asked in the desired form of a reptilian race and even concept art showed the case. It doesn't mean that females would have that concept in mind if they somehow changed it. Maybe that was also the reason for how the males are is not just for headgear mapping reasons. Japan, or the devs just seem incapable of creating intimidating/masculine females.
The closest in anime was in Log Horizon yet the face just doesnt...no

I'll admit, I don't really know much, if anything, about the furry community. I didn't even know about baras until some guy brought it up here on the forums. I guess I am still pretty innocent. Pretty sure hrothgar wouldn't look like any of those images, even if we took the mosaic. The little bit of face alone we got, looks aggressive. I see them as being really proud; strong-willed females.

You don't need to know much about the community to see what the collective want when representing the fandom. By a economic sense, Zootopia(70million box office) and Beastars targeted and/or introduced people to it. And what they have in common are animalistic traits especially in their facial features.
But for the community aware. In 1972 Japan, a certain Tokusatsu was released called Lion Maru. The essential gimmick of a human being with the the head of a lion. With Guin Saga following the same concept in 1979 as fantasy novels. The idea how the devs made Hrothgar is sub consciously woven in japans culture of artistic representation of anthropomorphic characters (Kemono genre) during the media revolution when bonding with western interpretations and their own experiences on ancient arts of anthropomorphic characters.

The way we can link to the worrying possibility of how female Hrothgar is not just with the original Ronso designs. But looking into Osamu Tezuka's, Bagi the Monster of Mighty Nature. Introducing a now dated eastern idea of innocent/attractive anthro characters having more flat faces with hints of animal traits in skin color, ears, tail and possibly hands. With the story about the character, Bagi going through her life as a innocent "lab rat" in a mutation experiment.
Her youthful, human side being this:


While the finale has her appearing with a more bestial face of a exotic cat but now too wild and dangerous to hold onto her developed human nature. Separating a love between two worlds...Though it seems their culture took that into account for designing female anthro characters to be exclusively the flat side of Bagi:


Occam's razor is obviously, "sex sells". However, a simple look into how a culture looks and consumes media they grew up in or were taught could unconsciously sway the minds in one way or the other. And right now we're at the peak of changing that mindset of females needing to be more human in facial structure to appeal an anthropomorphic character towards a vocal minority when the idea of races in mmos are to give variety in personalities and roleplay. Something the Devs thought about when making Hrothgar. And it shouldn't be just for the males. All strong willed, powerful, proud and ready for BATTLE/STYLE

In my mind, I don't know about expressive. I kind of feel like they would be kind of like the viera situation all over again, rather than playful - like miqo'te. I picture them as being really strong and proud. I kind of picture them as leaders of the hrothgar, rather than the males, that's probably why. I picture them with a "royal" kind of vibe.

It would be a nice change of pace to have their animations similar to the males be it less wide in arm movements. light Punches or elbow bumps for console/rally. To have the same dimorphism as Au Ra with said emotes would be disappointing.

[NealSnow]

Beast women would make life worth leaving again. Give me big cat mommy gf Yoshi pls... I'm being serious btw in my own way. I love femroes but they just aren't beast enough

[reivaxe]

In my mind, I don't know about expressive. I kind of feel like they would be kind of like the viera situation all over again, rather than playful - like miqo'te. I picture them as being really strong and proud. I kind of picture them as leaders of the hrothgar, rather than the males, that's probably why. I picture them with a "royal" kind of vibe.

I keep saying expressive because human brains are designed to read human faces. This is the reason Hrothgar have ALL THE DRAMA in their emotes, to make up for the fact that much of their facial reactions to things is "shocked Pikachu face". We're not wired to read animal faces well and animals don't rely as much on facial expressions as we do so the more animal a face is the more you have to do with the body language to show what that character is thinking.

Other way around that is to stylize the face to have more exaggerated, cartoony proportions/ features like the furry art I've been posting and in stuff like Western animation or to just make the face more human like Bless did with their cat people and killing bites often does.