Delete Clemency and Vercure

[SturmChurro]

To each their own, I suppose, but Clemency should basically almost never see any use outside prog. That isn't to say I want it deleted. I really couldn't care less either way. If, however, you're using it frequently. You either are far too cautious or have bad healers.

PLD who starts using Clemency frequently is a paladin who doesn't need me to heal them. So I don't.

[ForteNightshade]

PLD who starts using Clemency frequently is a paladin who doesn't need me to heal them. So I don't.

Exactly. If I see a Clemency go off at like say, 60%, I'll continue to Holy spam without a second thought.

[Nestama]

I keep Clemency on my Narnia bar. It gathers dust for never being used and it's far away from my main and AoE hotbars. Only time I ever use it is if the Healer KO's, but it's still possible to clear the fight (I still believe it's a worthless skill, though. Wouldn't miss it if it were deleted).
I otherwise fully trust the Healer (even when I have 10% HP remaining. That WHM really wanted to see how low I could go).

[Goji1639]

Define earlier. The person quoted simply said "when my HP gets low". Is that 50%? 20%? Goji just below you assumes "low" is <50%. Which takes away significant value from both Benediction and Essential.

Getting maximum value out of Bene and Essential isn't necessary. I'm not always in the mood to guess at whether the Healer fell asleep or he's trying to show off when he lets my health just sit below 50 on a huge pull, so I'll do his job for him.

If Healers mind me using Clemency they shouldn't give me a reason to. If they don't mind then everything's cool.

[ForteNightshade]

Getting maximum value out of Bene and Essential isn't necessary. I'm not always in the mood to guess at whether the Healer fell asleep or he's trying to show off when he lets my health just sit below 50 on a huge pull, so I'll do his job for him.

If Healers mind me using Clemency they shouldn't give me a reason to. If they don't mind then everything's cool.

50% isn't even that low, if we're being honest. You're in no danger whatsoever even doing super pulls. At least, assuming you have proper mitigation rolling. Furthermore, getting value out of Bene is huge for healers who typically do a massive amount of damage in large enough pulls. For reference sake, it'll take 2-3 Cure II/Solaces to make up the loss of using Bene at 50%. Depending on the dungeon, of course.

Nevertheless, I'm not going to be miffed if you want to spam Clemency. But if I see a Paladin start doing that, I pretty much ignore them completely.

[Duskane]

Clemency and PLD entire utility needs to be reworked
Vercure is fine if people wanna play a healer with Longer ques go ahead
but its good for procing dual cast during boss down time

[Alaray]

ill toss my 2cents in to say that both abilities are useful progression tools (granted, so was old tank stance, of which i still miss)

and additionally, rdms can set up a dualcast with a vercure during "boss go bye" points during a fight

so i don't really see a reason to delete the tools from the jobs

idc what tf people do in dungeons tbh, it's a dungeon, you can aa the entire thing and win it's really a zero factor there. paladin spamming clemency? ok ill just spam holy, art of war, gravity.

rdm healing instead of me? ill just continue providing more overall damage output to the pull than when they weren't.

as a side note, requiescat + clemency is a very nice tool to have when you feel bored and decide to solo random raids for the fun of it

im not really for removing tools from a toolkit for the sake of removing them, especially if they're only kept as "iconic" and are kind of otherwise worthless as a separate button (im still salty abt what they did to abyssal drain ok)


if it's really just "bad players use them poorly" okay, then just delete every ability. because it's not going to fix that, lol.

[Duskane]

Old tank stance 20% is now a passive for all tanks without the damage reduction

[Alaray]

Old tank stance 20% is now a passive for all tanks without the damage reduction

misses the point of the access to tank-stance specific abilities and the balancing of fights around having it/not having it vs. assuming it's a constant and being able to actively consider it when progressing a fight and are still learning CD rotations, or trying to set a group up for recovery (ie.: WAR Defiance + IR, or even just multiple Inner Beasts, can mitigate a lot of inc. damage if the group is not stable and recovering from a wipe, and is why the group I was with in Omegascape managed to get a first clear of 011S in the first place)

IR+IB was one of the strongest tank abilities you could ask for back then (outside of invulns), and could come in incredibly handy if crap hit the fan or you're trying to solo through a fight on progress to see the next sets of mechanics coming up, trying to mitigate inc. damage so healers can focus on party recovery etc...

now all that's removed and it's just that: a passive +20% to defense that doesn't ultimately matter since it'll just be factored in as a hard constant on fights, and isn't an active choice, and thus can no longer serve in the capacity of an emergency CD or as an extra CD.

[ChocoFeru]

Clemency is still useful on prog since it can save a try if something goes wrong.
Sometimes healers die, and clemency can do 40k-90k+ heals each, helping the party to survive and keep the try and not wasting time just because the healers may feel offended by a PLD's heal.

They already nerfed PLD's cover and it's utility. It wouldn't be wise to keep nerfing utilities here and there; jobs would be really boring if we keep nerfing them.