Tank homogenization

[Adeacia]

You wanting them to all be different then brings another issue. You compare their dps then complain when one does 0.000000000000001 less dps than the rest. You want everything to be balanced exactly, yet you want everything to be different at the same time.

The tanks being different also has them excluded from things, which is exactly what the devs are trying to prevent. The players are the issue here.

[shao32]

DPS operate pretty different and none of them are excluded from anything idk why tanks can't have that kind of gameplay diversity too, actually when the jobs hit the peak on gameplay diversity back on ARR-HW still none of them where unviable, less effective? Sure but that's a question of numbers, balance is a question of numbers always and the game never required the most perfect comp with the most perfect numbers to clear it.

[Masked-dingus]

You wanting them to all be different then brings another issue. You compare their dps then complain when one does 0.000000000000001 less dps than the rest. You want everything to be balanced exactly, yet you want everything to be different at the same time.

The tanks being different also has them excluded from things, which is exactly what the devs are trying to prevent. The players are the issue here.

Actually in my opinion, Tank DPS shouldn't be significant enough to become a criteria for wich you should pick

Also, prevent some Tank being excluded by making them all as boring as each other, so some players actualy quit tanking wouldn't be that smart

[Absurdity]

You wanting them to all be different then brings another issue. You compare their dps then complain when one does 0.000000000000001 less dps than the rest. You want everything to be balanced exactly, yet you want everything to be different at the same time.

The tanks being different also has them excluded from things, which is exactly what the devs are trying to prevent. The players are the issue here.

Except nobody is actually complaining about minor differences in dps...ever
I've mained warrior since about as long as I can remember and while yes, it was pretty much the flavor of the month tank for a long time you don't see me complain about it's dps right now, even if it shares a spot with DRK as having the lowest dps depending on the fight.
What I am complaining about however is warrior's incredibly stale gameplay that arguably came with 4.2 in Stormblood and became even more boring when they took out any resemblance of interesting design in Shadowbringers, a.i. managing your gauge correctly to get the most out of your crit buff and any form of gameplay variety that isn't 1-2-3-IR-repeat. Stance dancing wasn't really a thing when you tried to optimize but that doesn't mean they had to scrap the option entirely... RIP Memeheaval opener.
The same goes for Dark Knight, except that they got hit even worse by the ShB design.

[AziraSyuren]

You wanting them to all be different then brings another issue. You compare their dps then complain when one does 0.000000000000001 less dps than the rest. You want everything to be balanced exactly, yet you want everything to be different at the same time.

The tanks being different also has them excluded from things, which is exactly what the devs are trying to prevent. The players are the issue here.

Tanks were almost never excluded from content (inb4 a single anecdote from a salty casual), and when they were, it was because someone didn't have the goddamn slashing debuff.

While I don't mind and even welcome homogenization to a certain extent, most of the justifications people give for homogenization were simply never true. The tanks had critical design flaws (namely the 'stance dancing' memes and the aforementioned slashing debuff), and in fixing them, the tanks became too similar in a lot of ways. It almost seems like a genuine mistake rather than intent.

[ItMe]

Tanks were almost never excluded from content (inb4 a single anecdote from a salty casual), and when they were, it was because someone didn't have the goddamn slashing debuff.

I mean... some of those old fights were so magic damage heavy that DRKs were in demand. This literally lead to people rejecting other tanks from joining their parties.
PLD used to not get stacks when under Hallowed Ground. That led to a lot of quirky single tank strats (in OG Shiva and Titan for example) so parties would demand having a PLD and a DPS over any two tanks.

[Bhearil]

On the DRK meta on Heavensward the reason was two fold: One that paladins dealt shit damage and another that block was useless against magic, on a raid tier that almost everything was magic damage, making paladins the lowest damage and defence wise at the same time

[Khalithar]

Actually in my opinion, Tank DPS shouldn't be significant enough to become a criteria for wich you should pick

I actually agree with this sentiment but the DPS meta is firmly in place and won't change any time soon. The way damage works in this game is that it comes in waves, if you can survive it one time you'll survive it every time and all of the tanks are currently able to survive the damage. Improving your dps is the only metric to mark any improvement as a tank in the heavily scripted boss fights we have right now.

As for the thread topic about tanks feeling too similar I also disagree with that sentiment as they really have a different sort of playstyle compared to each other. Their rotations are different, their burst set up is different, resource management and expenditure is different, and their ultimates are different. Especially when I'm not playing paladin I notice how different they are to each other, when I play Paladin I don't care if my healer dies in most boss fights at 80 because I can solo them. As any other tank? Definitely can't do that as easily if at all.

Now if you want to argue that certain tanks got oversimplified (drk only having one combo and nothing else for example) I can absolutely get on board with that.

[Goji1639]

Homogenization is necessary if you want to have actual options. I've seen MMO's that lack it, and the result is extreme imbalances that leave certain classes restricted from most of the game's content. You basically only get to play them if you have tolerant friends.

SE has managed to strike a good balance with the tanking classes; people can literally play whatever they want in whatever content they want. Even progression groups aren't excluding anyone based on class (that's incredibly rare in an MMO).

[Bhearil]

Homogenization is necessary if you want to have actual options. I've seen MMO's that lack it, and the result is extreme imbalances that leave certain classes restricted from most of the game's content. You basically only get to play them if you have tolerant friends.

SE has managed to strike a good balance with the tanking classes; people can literally play whatever they want in whatever content they want. Even progression groups aren't excluding anyone based on class (that's incredibly rare in an MMO).

What options? At this rate tanks are healer are becoming more and more like skins instead of jobs, with a gameplay so dull that makes watching the grass grow more entertaining. You cans see that this expansion took a real hit on healer player numbers and even tanks despite having a new toy have also came back to be on dire demand once again after the honeymoon with gunbreaker ended. At this rate either you like the job "tank" and/or "healer" or you wont no matter how many skins they have, which is already gradually getting harder and harder to like considering how they are gutting the jobs removing every ounce of flavour they have bit by bit on each expansion.

But SE answer that that time and time was to make them more and more brain dead because they think "tanking and healing is too hard so we need to make them more accesible and be clones of each other because its easier to balance that way" garbage instead of making them a bit unique and fun to play. Shiny new animations of the same skill quickly gets old

This is like saying if a barber want to do the same hairstyle to a group of friends he should shave them all bald because that way they wont complain that one's hair is longer than the other....