Tank homogenization

[Takamorisan]

snip

The class balance in WoW is bananas due to their own philosophy of Merry Go Round, X, Y and Z classes will be good, the rest suck. Unless its a non hybrid class they have to at least balance one specialization to not suck.
As for the thought of Homogenized roles = Easy balance, yeah sure since you are giving the same core to every class, but at the same time you are generating a bigger issue that is all of then play the same and you are just wearing a cosmetic (Two handed axe, sword, gunblade and so on). So to compensate the lower skill Cap given they use the same schtick, the dev have to develop harder encounters with complex mechanics. Sound good in theory, but experiencing this on WoW BFA (something you want to avoid at all costs btw) made the game not enjoyable at all due to being basically an RNGfest with your guildmates, since you have to wait the stars to align and everyone get the mechanics right. FFXIV have the advantage that doesn't force 20 people in the roster it and reduces the RNG element so you have just 8 people to get it right, but at the same time if you want to PUG this because you don't have time or maybe you don't feel comfortable building this social experience you end up with a really frustrating experience of hoping that PUG announcement is not actually bullshit and you wont get in a trap that is something really common.

I rather have more power to the player allowing him to master his class instead of having to bash his head against the wall until he get the mechanic right. The perfect world would be a balance between those two. Heavensward did this pretty well, but mentioned before already some classes didn't receive any attention in order to engage with the content. But its not a fault of lacking homogenization, its the lack of action from the developer to see the data (How many paladins are killing AS1,2,3 and 4?)
With Homogenization we have a different beast, all classes are balanced but a common complaint is they feel bland and not fun to play because the skill ceiling is non existent

edit: minor corrections,text cohesion and so on etc etc

[Undeadfire]

Don't even need to be organized, HG/Bolide literally blocks it with no vuns and no where else to use it for pugs. Drk/War doing it only the OT should for pug healers. You only need to be organized for Melee uptime.... You literally don't even need BIS honestly, it's only for melees it's required.

[FoxCh40s]

Moreso than with the previous expansions, there seems to be an earnest effort by SE to balance the tanks, which they have chosen to accomplish by homogenizing the crap out of them.

As of now, every tank has
- the same 20% damage reduction, taunt, shirk, etc
- a 10s, 30% damage reduction on a 120s CD
- an ultimate "I can't die" button
- a gap closer
- a 2-stage AoE combo
- a functionally identical pulling tool
- some flavor of AoE party support
- some flavor of single-target party support
- a Fel Cleave expy
- and probably more I'm not thinking of off the top of my head

This is completely unnecessary IMO, because disparity is what gives a job its flavor. Differences in toolkits create niches that an individual job can excel at, and using your tools correctly to excel in those niches is what connects you to your job so much more.

Looking over to WoW and my main, the Brewmaster Monk, just off the top of my head i can rattle off 6 things my class can do that my co-tank, a Protection Paladin, cannot. And I can think of another 6 things that his class can do that mine cannot.
Is it balanced? Not exactly, but people need to accept the fact that pitch perfect balance only impacts the top 0.1% of the player base - i.e. those in the world first race. So long as every job is capable of clearing the content without holding the group back (like say, HW PLD being a pain to work with for multiple reasons), there should not be a problem.

It's perfectly valid to design a job that has glaring weaknesses as long as its strength are both equally apparent and equally impactful.

*cries in Healer*

You guys got Homogenized? God, at least your jobs feel different.

[Marxam]

It's perfectly valid to design a job that has glaring weaknesses as long as its strength are both equally apparent and equally impactful.

I agree but I think the problem is that the team either has given up on it or it's no longer a priority in lieu of "balance". This game originally started with a sense of "tradeoff". In previous expansions, tanks had to deal with this "trade-off".

-Do I drop my tank stance to enter OT stance to deal more damage but risk taking more damage and possibly dying?
-Should I save my defensive cds for a later tank buster or invul it?
-Can my healers keep me alive if I stay in OT stance during the tankbuster? Should I switch back to tank stance?

These are some examples of trade-offs and split second decisions that needed to be made but are nearly non existent in the current game. Every tank share the same defensive tool kit so there is no need to plan ahead. Back then 3 min cds like sentinel existed and if you sued it at the wrong time you could be screwed and have to rely on the healers or OT who might not be able to help you. I understand the game has gotten faster but the tanks need to be designed in a team setting and not a solo setting. Tanks used to compensate for each other and the only reason we still need two tanks is because of mechanics. Otherwise why would you bring two tanks that do the exact same thing when you can have an extra dps instead? Note* they already do this in 24 mans.

Yoshi need to remember that the element of decision making in those split second where you have to run through a series of outcomes and choose the one that's best is an important element of any game regardless of genre. Currently however the only choices made by tanks is whittled down to;

-invul the tankbuster then shirk to OT
-Provoke when its your turn to take a tank buster
-rampart/job cd for in-between tank busters
-30% mitigation for when you have no invul