Do the Scions know? (Spoilers)

[SannaR]

It's still very much in the air whether the Scions know.

What is provided in game is:
- Urianger knows about Azem.
- We told the Scions that 'an Ancient' helped us in the battle against Elidibus.
- The scions know that Ardbert and the WoL are/were shards of each other.
- We didn't tell Y'shtola anything of the constellation stones prior to the battle.

Also notable is that the summoning spell hasn't been brought up in the discussions at all, so I think there is a good chance that our character didn't tell everything. The scions might still have their suspicions though.

I think this is how things are. Considering Y'shtola asked us if everything was wrong and we just shake our head. Along with how her and Urianger both had a small chat that we over heard about how the Lightwarden light wasn't being absorbed just being contained. I would like to think those two would have had another talk about what to think or do with knowing we used to be co-workers at the slightest with the Ascians. I'm not sure we know that we used to be friends of Emet's as you can be just a friend of a friend or any of the other Ascians.

[Rannie]

I think this is how things are. Considering Y'shtola asked us if everything was wrong and we just shake our head. Along with how her and Urianger both had a small chat that we over heard about how the Lightwarden light wasn't being absorbed just being contained. I would like to think those two would have had another talk about what to think or do with knowing we used to be co-workers at the slightest with the Ascians. I'm not sure we know that we used to be friends of Emet's as you can be just a friend of a friend or any of the other Ascians.

Eh except when we use the crystal during the Elidibus fight in 5.3 we hear emet Selch specifically state that Azem was his dearest friend and Hythlodaeus said that that crystal was back were it belongs when he first gave it to us.

Herein I commit the chronicle of the traveler. Shepherd to the stars in the dark. Though the world be sundered and our souls set adrift, where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow. For yours is the Fourteenth seat—the seat of Azem

Edit: Also, if memory serves me correctly the Scions or some of them have basically said that it didn't matter who we were in the past or if someone else was split from our soul, we are who we are currently. Nothing more nothing less. Same thing when Seto said our souls where Strikingly similar to Ardbert's.

Im sure they most likely know whats going on they just completely refuse to comment on it as it isn't "who we are in the here and now"

[YianKutku]

Edit: Also, if memory serves me correctly the Scions or some of them have basically said that it didn't matter who we were in the past or if someone else was split from our soul, we are who we are currently. Nothing more nothing less. Same thing when Seto said our souls where Strikingly similar to Ardbert's.

Im sure they most likely know whats going on they just completely refuse to comment on it as it isn't "who we are in the here and now"

Yeah, it's a major theme of at least Shadowbringers, with its emphasis on souls, but also a recurring theme throughout FFXIV (and plenty of other media). Seto himself did say that even if our soul looked similar to Ardbert's, that means very little, since a soul does not define a person.

There was also the short story about Seto and Ardbert, where we learn that Ardbert became an adventurer who helped people not because he was a shard of Azem's soul, but simply because he grew up in a small village in Kholusia where everyone helped each other.

[Veloran]

that means very little, since a soul does not define a person.

I think if anything can be said to define a person, it's their soul. And that statement kind of falls flat when you consider the people we know to be shards of each other, and see that they all share major similarities. Yes Ardbert grew up helping others in a small village, but it's hard to say that he wouldn't have ended up a helpful adventurer anyway given that WoL can quite literally be anyone from anywhere and they turn out the same way. It's pretty much impossible to buy the idea that one's soul is meaningless when we meet people like Grenoldt, Mowen, and Taynor on the First.

[Eloah]

I think if anything can be said to define a person, it's their soul. And that statement kind of falls flat when you consider the people we know to be shards of each other, and see that they all share major similarities. Yes Ardbert grew up helping others in a small village, but it's hard to say that he wouldn't have ended up a helpful adventurer anyway given that WoL can quite literally be anyone from anywhere and they turn out the same way. It's pretty much impossible to buy the idea that one's soul is meaningless when we meet people like Grenoldt, Mowen, and Taynor on the First.

I'd say think of a soul as more like a template and not a blueprint. It's been established that imprinting on the soul does leave a lasting impression, but from a template one can expand and grow. Whereas a blueprint has a definitive end.

[YianKutku]

I think if anything can be said to define a person, it's their soul. And that statement kind of falls flat when you consider the people we know to be shards of each other, and see that they all share major similarities. Yes Ardbert grew up helping others in a small village, but it's hard to say that he wouldn't have ended up a helpful adventurer anyway given that WoL can quite literally be anyone from anywhere and they turn out the same way. It's pretty much impossible to buy the idea that one's soul is meaningless when we meet people like Grenoldt, Mowen, and Taynor on the First.

How do we know Grenoldt is a soul fragment of the same soul as Gerolt? How do we know Mowen is a soul fragment of the same soul as Rowena?

[LineageRazor]

How do we know Grenoldt is a soul fragment of the same soul as Gerolt? How do we know Mowen is a soul fragment of the same soul as Rowena?

We don't - and, in fact, in an interview just prior to the release of Shadowbringers, Yoshi P mentioned that we might see familiar faces on the First, but that these people are not necessarily shared souls. Rather, that certain trades tend to attract a certain type of person, nothing more.

The fact that these people are similar to counterparts on the First is not an indicator that they share souls. In fact, the one undeniable instance of shared souls we know about (the WoL and Ardbert) would indicate that people with shared souls are NOT similar in appearance. (That is, unless you created your WoL to look just like Ardbert, I suppose.)

Veloran is correct in that Ardbert and the WoL have a lot of similarities, and that they share these similarities with Azem - a penchant for gathering allies, wandering the land, and performing acts of dogoodery. However, the Azem example is the ONLY confirmed example of a shared soul we have on hand at the moment. Anyone else is speculation, not confirmed by any means - and thanks to Yoshi P's interview, outright suspect at best. Mowen is similar to Rowena because her profession tends to attract Rowena-like people, nothing more. Could she be a shared soul? It's not impossible, but it would require an AMAZING set of coincidences to pull off, considering that time moves at a different rate on the First than it does on the Source, and considering that soul fragments can be reborn as any race. We'd need both Mowen's and Rowena's shards to be born into Hyur/Hume bodies at just the right time so that when the WoL winds up traveling to the First they both happen to be the same age.

[Rasler_Heios]

The fact that these people are similar to counterparts on the First is not an indicator that they share souls. In fact, the one undeniable instance of shared souls we know about (the WoL and Ardbert) would indicate that people with shared souls are NOT similar in appearance. (That is, unless you created your WoL to look just like Ardbert, I suppose.)

Yes, I know this feeling, as I have my avatar to look like Ardbert after 3.4. I originally have as much as possible close to Deplander in the trailers (I am lazy at character creation pages). After 3.4, I tweaked it a bit to look more like Ardbert, as I like that character. I keep telling my FC mates going through the MSQ if they have met already my twin. Little did I know what will happen in 5.x. Having the same appearance as he is going through the 5.x MSQ, it made me felt MORE the fact that we are from the same soul. Note the word MORE, I am not saying it is any different if a player's avatar looks completely different than Ardbert. I actually agree that people with similar counterparts is not an indicator that they share souls, it just makes it more empathic if they are, especially if it is your avatar and a story NPC.

[Veloran]

How do we know Grenoldt is a soul fragment of the same soul as Gerolt? How do we know Mowen is a soul fragment of the same soul as Rowena?

Because I didn't say who they were supposed to be fragments of and you instantly knew anyway.

We don't - and, in fact, in an interview just prior to the release of Shadowbringers, Yoshi P mentioned that we might see familiar faces on the First, but that these people are not necessarily shared souls. Rather, that certain trades tend to attract a certain type of person, nothing more.

The fact that these people are similar to counterparts on the First is not an indicator that they share souls. In fact, the one undeniable instance of shared souls we know about (the WoL and Ardbert) would indicate that people with shared souls are NOT similar in appearance. (That is, unless you created your WoL to look just like Ardbert, I suppose.)

Veloran is correct in that Ardbert and the WoL have a lot of similarities, and that they share these similarities with Azem - a penchant for gathering allies, wandering the land, and performing acts of dogoodery. However, the Azem example is the ONLY confirmed example of a shared soul we have on hand at the moment. Anyone else is speculation, not confirmed by any means - and thanks to Yoshi P's interview, outright suspect at best. Mowena is similar to Rowena because her profession tends to attract Rowena-like people, nothing more. Could she be a shared soul? It's not impossible, but it would require an AMAZING set of coincidences to pull off, considering that time moves at a different rate on the First than it does on the Source, and considering that soul fragments can be reborn as any race. We'd need both Mowena's and Rowena's shards to be born into Hyur/Hume bodies at just the right time so that when the WoL winds up traveling to the First they both happen to be the same age.

They quite literally have all the same appearance settings outside of their haircuts, they're in the exact same lines of work, and they have the exact same personalities to the point of speaking exactly the same. Being the same races isn't much of coincidence either, especially since 90% of the First was nuked. Saying that they're not shared souls, especially when Mowen says that she's somehow dreamed of being business partners with WoL before they first appear (And as we see with the Pixies there's some weird connection with crossing the rift and dreams), is just raw denial.

[YianKutku]

Because I didn't say who they were supposed to be fragments of and you instantly knew anyway.

Because I'm approaching it from the point of media analysis, not diegetic assumptions. Please don't pretend that this has not already been discussed many, many times prior in this lore forum.