It’s 2021 now and we still do not have Race Restrictions REMOVED from Hempen Clothes

[ForteNightshade]

Lets not play obtuse here. The Talisman is apart of their underwear and from their lore that outright states they wear this woven into their underwear, you legit said none of them had any cultural meaning or significance/ connection. Ya wrong. (Also, the fact that it's race and clan locked would imply that all hempen tops/ bottoms designs are customary for those who wear them. As in, by being race locked the game's saying "it's customary for these people in this culture to wear this under their outter clothing" aka implied lore ... cause not everyone is going to have descriptions of underwear in their lore but the game can show it. Yeah, ya know .. it can work that way. This can be the game's way of saying that these are lore-wise what your character would wear as w/e race cause it is their customary garments ).

Apparently, this significance meant nothing when the developers ported the Hyur and Roegadyn sets over to Viera and Hrothgar. Are you going to argue these four races just happened to share a similar enough culture... for their underwear?

[reivaxe]

Except the removal of these restrictions has been brought up numerous times with some threads reaching over 300 likes.

More than 300 people play this game.

Before you dismiss likes, the devs have repeatedly said they use likes as a way to gauge player interest in a particular subject. When the overwhelming opinion between here, reddit and other online forums is one-sided, it stands to reason that is the general average.

300 people are not the overwhelming arvg between OF, Reddit and other forums. Not to mention Jpn and other languages on the OF and other gathering places that they would have to also be looking at.

If nothing else, you need some form of statistical evidence to argue that stance isn't the majority—which hasn't been provided.

You got that mixed up.

The onus is on you to prove that this is something "Most people who play this game care about". This is your claim. I legit said that I can't possibly know how many people want xyz but I know what I want, I've seen proof that I'm not alone and of all the gathering places I go to for talk of this game the OF is the only place I've seen people bother bringing this up.

You point to a topic "over 300 likes" ... ok. If you think saying "there's at least 303 of us!" sounds lame then I get why you would want to inflate this into an issue everyone agrees on. Doesn't make it true though.

[HyoMinPark]

Lets not play obtuse here. The Talisman is apart of their underwear and from their lore that outright states they wear this woven into their underwear, you legit said none of them had any cultural meaning or significance/ connection. Ya wrong.

This sounds like a very hand-wavey way to dismiss my argument. It’s not playing obtuse. The lorebook mentions the talismans as the significant part of the Highlander culture. Not the clothes they weave them into. Remove the talismans, and the clothes are no longer significant to the race. There’s nothing saying that they weave them into this “BDSM-esque” (as you described it) gear.

Take another culturally significant piece of clothing and compare: the kimono for example. If you take away the obi from the kimono, it doesn’t make the kimono any less culturally significant to Japanese culture (or the obi, for that matter). The hempen sets, on the other hand, have no record of history. They aren’t mentioned in the lore book. There’s no in-game lore explaining why they are the way they are—not even an hand-wavey explanation, and this game has plenty of those. Only the talismans are worth mentioning in the lorebook. The racial starter gear is mentioned over the racial hempen sets. At the end of the day, it’s just underwear.

That you’re clinging to one very loose instance of cultural significance for hempen sets doesn’t really work when every other hempen set is not culturally significant outside of what players may head-canon. And head-canons are not canonical in the XIV universe.

(Also, the fact that it's race and clan locked would imply that all hempen tops/ bottoms designs are customary for those who wear them. As in, by being race locked the game's saying "it's customary for these people in this culture to wear this under their outter clothing" aka implied lore ... cause not everyone is going to have descriptions of underwear in their lore but the game can show it. Yeah, ya know .. it can work that way. This can be the game's way of saying that these are lore-wise what your character would wear as w/e race cause it is their customary garments )

This argument falls flat when Viera shares the Hyuran hempen set. And the Hrothgar share Roegadyn gear. Are you going to just make an implication that they just happen to share their set with another race? Again, there isn’t anything racially significant about these sets. They’re just underwear. You’re clinging to the notion of head-canoning that this is what each race wears as their underwear. At the end of the day, it’s a head canon if there’s nothing within the game’s lore to ultimately support it. Which there really isn’t.

Your argument for keeping these sets locked is clinging to straws. Opinions on elegance; tying characteristics into races (i.e., elegance, cuteness); views on what you think the races are inspired by. Head-canons. None of these are particularly strong enough, in my opinion, to support why these sets should remain locked. Especially when they’ve already thrown out the locks on the two new races, anyways. And that has very little to do with the other issues surrounding them, before that’s brought up again.

"B-B-But if you gave them DIFFERENT underwear they could still change it to have the talisman on it" so you want to divorce the elements behind their racial underwear that connect it directly to their culture just so everyone can have some version of BDSM gear and then make a version of EVERY other underwear that has a sizable wooden talisman in the center of the chest, woven into it?

That's silly.

The point I was making was, again, the talismans are what are important. Not what they are attached to. If the underwear itself was so important, one would think it would be made mention of alongside the talismans. Or even displayed in the lorebook because it does display significant pieces of gear to both races and jobs. But no, it’s just a generic statement about undergarments. Which could really be anything.

And hey, more gear options mean more options in general, so, since you suggested it, I’m all for it. Why not have more options? Isn’t that what you ultimately want? More options?

The onus is on you to prove that this is something "Most people who play this game care about". This is your claim. I legit said that I can't possibly know how many people want xyz but I know what I want, I've seen proof that I'm not alone and of all the gathering places I go to for talk of this game the OF is the only place I've seen people bother bringing this up.

When you bring up a counter argument, it’s your job to support your counter argument. Saying, “Well I know Discord and FB groups that don’t care about this” doesn’t really cut it because you aren’t providing any proof. Meanwhile, myself or anyone else could at least link the threads here with their likes. Scoff at them all you want, but developers take likes into account on here. No one is saying only 300 people play this game. That’s ridiculous. They’re showing a post that got significant traction with regards to this forum liking system. Not every post hits that high number.

I could tell you that most of the people in my Discords want it unlocked. Doesn’t mean that I’m suddenly right because I’m not providing any statistics or evidence to back up my statements. The same applies to you. Hence why I kept my argument to this platform—as the official platform and one that can offer readily available numbers and evidence. Even if it is in the form of likes that you’re scoffing at.

But one could look at them and say "Viera and Hrothgar's default clothing is basically kink lingerie. They only started wearing underwear after encountering other races .." to explain that. Cause they truly do wear the least of any race for their default clothing which may very well indicate that they do not normally wear underwear in their culture and only adjusted to it in the new environment.

This is a head-canon. That doesn’t make it true to the lore. If you have to head-canon things to support your arguments, then you have a poor argument.

[ForteNightshade]

More than 300 people play this game.

300 people are not the overwhelming arvg between OF, Reddit and other forums. Not to mention Jpn and other languages on the OF and other gathering places that they would have to also be looking at.

You missed the point. A statistical average does not require everyone participate. In fact, you typically need only a small amount to determine the likelihood. Case in point, people complained relentlessly about Monk yet it never garnered a thread with this much support. By your logic, the devs should have ignored it since "more than x numbers play Monk." Basically, you've dismissed any sort of feedback as this argument could be applied to literally everything.

You got that mixed up.

The onus is on you to prove that this is something "Most people who play this game care about". This is your claim. I legit said that I can't possibly know how many people want xyz but I know what I want, I've seen proof that I'm not alone and of all the gathering places I go to for talk of this game the OF is the only place I've seen people bother bringing this up.

You point to a topic "over 300 likes" ... ok. If you think saying "there's at least 303 of us!" sounds lame then I get why you would want to inflate this into an issue everyone agrees on. Doesn't make it true though.

Actually, the onus is on you to provide evidence of a rebuttal. Linking to a thread with 300 likes is evidence that shows a sizeable portion of players want this change. Once again, the developers have outright said they use likes as a way to gauge player interest.

We all know why the 2 newest races got cheated outta gear. (some would call them half done, I simply say they were poorly excused and poorly planned ideas. I mean, if hats and hair weren't important enough to deal with then ...).

But one could look at them and say "Viera and Hrothgar's default clothing is basically kink lingerie. They only started wearing underwear after encountering other races .." to explain that. Cause they truly do wear the least of any race for their default clothing which may very well indicate that they do not normally wear underwear in their culture and only adjusted to it in the new environment.

Take your pick, idc.

This is a giant headcanon. You have literally nothing to base this off but your own assumption. If you need to make this much of a reach to justify your argument, you have a poor argument.

[reivaxe]

Apparently, this significance meant nothing when the developers ported the Hyur and Roegadyn sets over to Viera and Hrothgar. Are you going to argue these four races just happened to share a similar enough culture... for their underwear?

We all know why the 2 newest races got cheated outta gear. (some would call them half done, I simply say they were poorly excused and poorly planned ideas. I mean, if hats and hair weren't important enough to deal with then ...).

But one could look at them and say "Viera and Hrothgar's default clothing is basically kink lingerie. They only started wearing underwear after encountering other races .." to explain that. Cause they truly do wear the least of any race for their default clothing which may very well indicate that they do not normally wear underwear in their culture and only adjusted to it in the new environment.

Take your pick, idc.

[WhiteArchmage]

We all know why the 2 newest races got cheated outta gear. (some would call them half done, I simply say they were poorly excused and poorly planned ideas. I mean, if hats and hair weren't important enough to deal with then ...).

But one could look at them and say "Viera and Hrothgar's default clothing is basically kink lingerie. They only started wearing underwear after encountering other races .." to explain that. Cause they truly do wear the least of any race for their default clothing which may very well indicate that they do not normally wear underwear in their culture and only adjusted to it in the new environment.

Take your pick, idc.

I mean, you can't argue lore on one hand and then headcanon with the other, that's both hypocritical and undermining your own argument. By that logic, since Viera and Horth "saw underwear" and started using it, you could argue that OTHER RACES "saw the others' underwear" and wanted to use them.

I'm against the notion that it's a lore issue when there's really only a sample of one "lore-appropriate" against eight "lore-ignoring" (and I say ignoring as meaning "having no connection to established lore"). Because it also opens the floodgates to another issue that's recieved complaints from the playerbase: that being, Highlander Males' lack of eyebrows. While it's lore-stated that Highlanders shaved off their eyebrows because of the fall of Ala Mhigo, it puts the PC in a position where EVERY Highlander is Ala Mhigan, which, as has been another circular argument in the Male Viera thread, the PC does not have a backstory bound by the lore (except the very spoiler-y revelations from patch 5.3, but those are so far back and don't actually make a difference to the WoL's current...er... y'know my meaning without a spoiler-box) and can be from anywhere and have whatever backstory-moving on.

A "lore" excuse for UNDERWEAR feels... silly, and I say silly specifically in a game with a flying snowman mount. The PC can already use other "underwear-like" pieces like the appropriately-named Lord's Drawers/Lady's Knickers/Healer's Culottes while being a Highlander, without the wooden talismans, so we can't excuse TWO races' "well, that's development for ya, what're you gonna do" use of another races' smallclothes while enforcing "everyone should wear their racial panties, because lore" because of ONE.

[reivaxe]

You missed the point. A statistical average does not require everyone participate.

I never said it requires everyone, but 300 is a veeeeery small amount of the player base of millions. You didn't even compare it to the number of people who bother coming to the forums.

Case in point, people complained relentlessly about Monk yet it never garnered a thread with this much support. By your logic, the devs should have ignored it since "more than x numbers play Monk." Basically, you've dismissed any sort of feedback as this argument could be applied to literally everything.

This is a lie LMAO
Mnk has been meemed about in tons of circles, from reddit to twitch to twitter to discords. Even big streamers who SE pay attention to who use to love Mnk talk about it's state. It is (or was) statistically the least popular/ played/ leveled full job. They have had toooons of feed back saying people aren't happy with Mnk.

Actually, the onus is on you to provide evidence of a rebuttal.

Naaaaah, if I told you that there's actually a spaghettis monster in the sky you wouldn't have to be the one working day and night to prove that's NOT the case lol
Onus is always on the 1 making the claim.

[ForteNightshade]

I never said it requires everyone, but 300 is a veeeeery small amount of the player base of millions. You didn't even compare it to the number of people who bother coming to the forums.

Large enough to provide an adequate sample size considering that thread garnered more support than the gender restrictions and many job change requests.

This is a lie LMAO
Mnk has been meemed about in tons of circles, from reddit to twitch to twitter to discords. Even big streamers who SE pay attention to who use to love Mnk talk about it's state. It is (or was) statistically the least popular/ played/ leveled full job. They have had toooons of feed back saying people aren't happy with Mnk.

And yet none of its threads attracted 300 likes. Regardless, you're starawmanning. We're specifically talking about like ratios not everything encompassing the Internet. I also have a bridge to sell if you think the dev team pays even the slightest attention to Twitch outside watching it for entertainment. If they did, they wouldn't design healers the way they have considering nearly every streamer complains about them.

Naaaaah, if I told you that there's actually a spaghettis monster in the sky you wouldn't have to be the one working day and night to prove that's NOT the case lol
Onus is always on the 1 making the claim.

Providing a thread with several hundred likes is evidence, especially because the dev team has routinely said they consider like ratios an endorsement. The onus shifts onto you to offer a counterargument. And no, your friends on discord and Facebook won't suffice.

[Fawkes]

What if a highlander couple adopted a male au ra? He wouldn't be able to wear the talisman. His parents might think he's rejecting their culture but really he's just physically unable to put it on.

Most of the miqo'te tribes seem to wear subligars, but their racial underwear is lacy boyshorts. But you don't ever see lace poking out from under their subligars so they clearly aren't wearing them. But then they aren't really underwear, are they? Technically I think subligaria is ancient roman underwear. So then what are these lacy boyshorts? Pajamas? Formal wear? When should a miqo'te wear them? I need to know!

[zeylos]

What if a highlander couple adopted a male au ra? He wouldn't be able to wear the talisman. His parents might think he's rejecting their culture but really he's just physically unable to put it on.

Most of the miqo'te tribes seem to wear subligars, but their racial underwear is lacy boyshorts. But you don't ever see lace poking out from under their subligars so they clearly aren't wearing them. But then they aren't really underwear, are they? Technically I think subligaria is ancient roman underwear. So then what are these lacy boyshorts? Pajamas? Formal wear? When should a miqo'te wear them? I need to know!

I dont really know if it would make sense lore wise for a higlander couple to adopt an au ra, considering how few of them there are in almost the entire world excpet the steppes and a few other places, but I do agree the miqote underwear is strange imo