It’s 2021 now and we still do not have Race Restrictions REMOVED from Hempen Clothes

[HyoMinPark]

Very odd. I see the heavensturn helmet. I can only imagine you’re talking about the crypt mask which is current tier for MCH.

The forum loads differently for different people. Hence the disconnect in your current outfit of choice.

I’m also a chick, and if I wanted to play the sims I’d play the sims. Many of us play this game seriously and not to dress up in Limsa and do whatever you guys do there.

Again assuming that I hang around Limsa all the time? I actually don’t. I tend to stay to myself and hang out at my personal house or FC house. Don’t care to hang around in the city-states. Much like I don’t care what other people do with their characters. And who’s to say I don’t play this game seriously? How do you know how I play the game? Can we stop with the baseless assumptions? Like where are you even getting this crap from?

But again this is my point, you get aggressive very quickly if anyone suggests your opinion is not the only one that matters so many of us stay quiet. But there’s no real evidence that you’re more representative of the fanbase than me.

BRUHHH. I get aggressive very quickly? Dude, you literally assumed my gender in your first response to me (I’m assuming based off your last response and this one that you were lumping me in with the “grown men” statement), and then accused me of having a fetish (because...I play a Miqo’te?). Who’s the aggressive one in this scenario?

All I did was 1., point out the irony of some of your statements condemning glamour tastes, and 2., ask you to provide evidence to your assertions of “many of us” and “a lot of players”. I’m providing evidence based on what I see here—the platform the developers provided for player feedback. What evidence are you providing? Other than saying I’m the loud minority, but not really providing anything to give credence to that. And then hand-wave it all away with the “there’s no real evidence that you’re more representative of the fanbase than me” argument.

[Vickii]

The forum loads differently for different people. Hence the disconnect in your current outfit of choice.



Again assuming that I hang around Limsa all the time? I actually don’t. I tend to stay to myself and hang out at my personal house or FC house. Don’t care to hang around in the city-states. Much like I don’t care what other people do with their characters. And who’s to say I don’t play this game seriously? How do you know how I play the game? Can we stop with the baseless assumptions? Like where are you even getting this crap from?



BRUHHH. I get aggressive very quickly? Dude, you literally assumed my gender in your first response to me (I’m assuming based off your last response and this one that you were lumping me in with the “grown men” statement), and then accused me of having a fetish (because...I play a Miqo’te?). Who’s the aggressive one in this scenario?

All I did was 1., point out the irony of some of your statements condemning glamour tastes, and 2., ask you to provide evidence to your assertions of “many of us” and “a lot of players”. I’m providing evidence based on what I see here—the platform the developers provided for player feedback. What evidence are you providing? Other than saying I’m the loud minority, but not really providing anything to give credence to that. And then hand-wave it all away with the “there’s no real evidence that you’re more representative of the fanbase than me” argument.

Never assumed your gender. I made a very true statement that there’s weird guys in this game that like playing dress up. You assumed I was talking about you. I was not.

But let’s move on, because as I said from the start, you’re not willing to regard anything but your own opinion. Have a nice evening.

[HyoMinPark]

But it’s true. Have you been to Limsa? It’s full of people with silly glamours doing ERP and god knows what.

Most of the people on Gilgamesh and Sargatanas that are AFK in Limsa are usually AFK with their Ultimate titles and weapons out. But let’s just make more blanket statements.

And these people think they are the ‘community’ and everything should be catered to them. Whilst there’s a whole bunch of other cities where we wear the actual armour and stuff in the game and play it a bit more seriously.

I guess you’ve never been to the Quicksand on Balmung or Mateus....

Why do you feel that all of those opinions shouldn’t matter just because you shout a bit louder?

Why do you feel like opposing opinions to yours shouldn’t matter? That’s the definite vibe I’m getting from you. That, and you condemn anyone who doesn’t play the game as you think they should play, based off your responses in this thread. Why does it matter what someone puts on their character that they pay for? Why does it matter what they do in game? Is it causing you harm?

Honestly, this quoted statement could be turned right around and applied to you. You’re condemning our opinions—calling us the “loud minority”, belittling us with baseless assumptions and insults—and then saying that your opinion and those of “the more serious players” should matter more.

Never assumed your gender. I made a very true statement that there’s weird guys in this game that like playing dress up. You assumed I was talking about you. I was not.

Considering you directly accused me of having a fetish, I just assumed you were also lumping me into your statement about how it’s “grown men with weird fetishes”. My apologies for making an assumption—but you’ve yet to apologize for your assuming I have a fetish based on I don’t even know what reason. And whose to say that there aren’t “weird women” that like to play dress up? Or is this only a problem if the person is a male? Again: WHY DOES IT MATTER TO YOU SO MUCH WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR CHARACTERS THAT THEY PAY FOR?

But let’s move on, because as I said from the start, you’re not willing to regard anything but your own opinion. Have a nice evening.

Just gonna repeat this here:

Honestly, this quoted statement could be turned right around and applied to you. You’re condemning our opinions—calling us the “loud minority”, belittling us with baseless assumptions and insults—and then saying that your opinion and those of “the more serious players” should matter more.

I don’t think we can have any sort of constructive conversation given that each retort you make towards me is full of nothing but assumptions and insults towards anyone who doesn’t play as you think they should.

[ForteNightshade]

maybe if you weren’t so hostile more people would share their views and I think you’d be surprised.

A lot of these players are grown men with weird fetishes

That’s a bit difference from you having a bunny/cat/maid fetish.

But it’s true. Have you been to Limsa? It’s full of people with silly glamours doing ERP and god knows what.

You’re sounding like left wing twitter. I remember people going on and on about brexit/Trump and how they were absolutely right and the majority and then when they both lost they were stunned.

I could make a thread right now ‘who doesn’t want FF overrun by stupid cat girls in bikinis’

I’m sorry, you play dress up and ERP all you want..

Hmmmm. I wonder...

[reivaxe]

@reivaxe — Except the hempen gear does not racially define any of the races. There is nothing about any of them that makes them inherently Hyuran or Miqo’te or Au Ra or whatever. They are underwear sets that existed in 1.0 and were ported over as is with the rest of the gear from that time. But they have never been what defined the races, or even the culture surrounding the races.

This is factually wrong.
I'm by no means a lore expert but for the time I was a Highlander I did learn a thing or two about them and "With a spiritual tradition dating back to times of yore, Highlanders are known to sport wood-carved talismans woven into their underclothes". This is reflected in them legit having a wooden talisman in their hempen top for both genders.

Now, is that true for every other group? IDK, don't know their lore and never looked into it. To me it's likely partly an aesthetics choice to enhance and promote the traits they based the races upon ... like them thinking that FemRoe underwear should look like a wrestle's could be because they're the biggest, buffest race/ Elezen having the classy, elegent underwear cause they're the elegant ones/ Lala having modest, cute underwear cause they're the lil cute people or Draggo girls having a teddy nightwear to play up and enhance or push the fact that they're based on succubus and Jpop idols.
These are all valid reasons to do this seeing as, again, the concept is to play up the themes and aesthetics unique to them. But at the VERY least Highlander underwear is based on their cultural lore.

[HyoMinPark]

This is factually wrong.
I'm by no means a lore expert but for the time I was a Highlander I did learn a thing or two about them and "With a spiritual tradition dating back to times of yore, Highlanders are known to sport wood-carved talismans woven into their underclothes". This is reflected in them legit having a wooden talisman in their hempen top for both genders.

This means that the talismans are lore appropriate, not the clothes themselves. Based off of this statement, could put them on the Miqo’te hempen top and it would make no difference. Remove the talisman from the Highlander hempen garb, and it’s just garb. If it cannot sustain its cultural significance when you remove the talisman, then the clothes themselves are not culturally significant.

Now, is that true for every other group? IDK, don't know their lore and never looked into it. To me it's likely partly an aesthetics choice to enhance and promote the traits they based the races upon ... like them thinking that FemRoe underwear should look like a wrestle's could be because they're the biggest, buffest race/ Elezen having the classy, elegent underwear cause they're the elegant ones/ Lala having modest, cute underwear cause they're the lil cute people or Draggo girls having a teddy nightwear to play up and enhance or push the fact that they're based on succubus and Jpop idols.
These are all valid reasons to do this seeing as, again, the concept is to play up the themes and aesthetics unique to them. But at the VERY least Highlander underwear is based on their cultural lore.

Miqo’te hempen clothes have no cultural significance to them. Lore-wise, Seekers and Keepers are very different in terms of their history and traditions, but both are considered to be hunters. A halter top and panties doesn’t do anything to enhance either of the clans’ cultural traits. The lore book only makes mention of starting race gear with regards to all races—for Miqo’te, it cites how they are loose fitting and not bulky to allow for free range of movement—and it does make mention that holes are cut out of the bottoms to accommodate their tails, something their hempen gear doesn’t have. For Au Ra, the lorebook directly contradicts the idea of them being cute J-pop girls, as it cites that their racial starting gear is supposed to represent “rugged strength” (more specifically referencing how the gear is ripped and torn—something that applies to both male and female garb).

On the topic of aesthetic choices to enhance/promote traits of the race, this argument falls flat when none of the tailed races have hempen clothes that do anything to enhance one of the prominent physical features that makes them very different from other races in the game. As for elegance, elegance is independent of race, in my opinion. I believe the lore book describes Elezens as pretentious instead of elegant. I suppose if you wanted to stretch with the whole “elf” lore that exists in other fandoms—but I cannot say for certain if that was the developers’ mindset with regards to Elezens as they are in the XIV universe. I don’t find anything particularly elegant enough about their hempen gear to advocate for it to being racially locked.

[reivaxe]

You did so while also accusing me of having a bunny/cat/maid fetish. Or started berating me and others for not playing the game “seriously” or how you think we should play. You don’t know how I play this game at all—or anyone else for that matter—yet that didn’t stop you from attacking people that don’t play like you think they should.

This is interesting ... I think you need to step back a bit.

Reading how your interaction went it started like this ...

Problem with the ff community is they kinda ignore that on some topics such as this and job specific armour and gender locking things, that there’s just as many people in favour of that stuff as against.

I don’t like what highlanders got for the Hempen set. But I do like having race specific clothing and would like some more.

I guess this is why the devs aren’t changing it.

This is frankly true, just cause you "can't IMAGINE why anyone would want restrictions" doesn't mean that's the common PoV on it. I'm proof of this as well as many others, I want MORE race restricted gear.

How do you know this? Because in a thread that says ‘unlock the items’ most people who post are in favour of it? Yes because this is kinda a non conflict community in the main. And if I were to post a ‘don’t unlock the items’ thread it would get attacked.

No offence but I can’t help believe that you’re the loud minority here. Many of us don’t want to see people walking around in silly clothes, it’s bad enough already tbh. A lot of these players are grown men with weird fetishes, and honestly there’s a lot of us would just rather the game stay away from this stuff.

This is also very true, the OF are mostly a cesspool of whining as it seems to have created a culture where people only come here to air grievances about something or troll. This does not mean that those feelings are the commonly held belief among the millions of players. So just cause you see people cheering for topics like this doesn't mean most players want it or even care about it.

I can't personally say how many people care about XYZ but I do know that of all the FB groups and Discords and reddits and in game chats I'm a part of these kinda things are never bitched about. I've legit seen someone accuse someone in a group of modding because they had an Elezen with the Hempen top on ... that person had never seen an elezen wearing one. That's the last time I remember anyone even commenting on these underwear outside of the OF.

[ForteNightshade]

This is frankly true, just cause you "can't IMAGINE why anyone would want restrictions" doesn't mean that's the common PoV on it. I'm proof of this as well as many others, I want MORE race restricted gear.

Except the removal of these restrictions has been brought up numerous times with some threads reaching over 300 likes. Before you dismiss likes, the devs have repeatedly said they use likes as a way to gauge player interest in a particular subject. When the overwhelming opinion between here, reddit and other online forums is one-sided, it stands to reason that is the general average. If nothing else, you need some form of statistical evidence to argue that stance isn't the majority—which hasn't been provided. Put simply, your assumption is based on... nothing. The assumption players want less restriction is clearly displayed online.

This is also very true, the OF are mostly a cesspool of whining as it seems to have created a culture where people only come here to air grievances about something or troll. This does not mean that those feelings are the commonly held belief among the millions of players. So just cause you see people cheering for topics like this doesn't mean most players want it or even care about it.

I can't personally say how many people care about XYZ but I do know that of all the FB groups and Discords and reddits and in game chats I'm a part of these kinda things are never bitched about. I've legit seen someone accuse someone in a group of modding because they had an Elezen with the Hempen top on ... that person had never seen an elezen wearing one. That's the last time I remember anyone even commenting on these underwear outside of the OF.

Be that as it may, these opinions aren't unique to the official forums. You also cannot simply dismiss a clear majority opinion with no rebuttal beyond "well, I don't think they represent the playerbase." At least not when the argument is so one-sided. A prime example would be Eureka. Near universally despised online, some people kept insisting that didn't represent the actual playerbase. Lo and behold, not only did the devs acknowledge many of the flaws players highlighted but made numerous changes entirely based on that vocal criticism.

In other words, the online responses are what the developers have to go on for feedback. Hence why they ask players to voice their opinions. If you aren't, well, you can't complain when they change things based on something you never spoke up about or against.

[HyoMinPark]

This is interesting ... I think you need to step back a bit.

Why do I need to step back? The poster you’re quoting came at me with assumptions and insults the minute I contested their opinions. That’s what the statement you quoted from me is referencing. In none of their responses to me where they exactly respectful—not even their first response to me, which is when they started going on about “grown men with weird fetishes”, and then it devolved into them telling me I had a weird fetish simply because I disagree with the hempen sets being racially locked. I wasn’t even discussing other kinds of glamour—I’ve always been primarily talking about the hempen sets because that’s what this thread is about. .

This is frankly true, just cause you "can't IMAGINE why anyone would want restrictions" doesn't mean that's the common PoV on it. I'm proof of this as well as many others, I want MORE race restricted gear.

I’m making my statements based on what I see on this platform, as stated in my previous posts. If you were actually analyzing the conversation between myself and Vickii, you would see that I mention that multiple times. The people that post on here are generally in favor of wanting the hempen sets unlocked. Every time they are brought up, most posts in the threads are in favor of them being unlocked. I also didn’t say anything about being unable to “imagine why anyone would want restrictions”. That’s simply you putting words in my mouth.

You ignored in my first response to Vickii where I said if they could give races sets that are designed to be culturally appropriate for them (or even the different clans, since, as I said, clans also differ in their lore), then I’m fine with that. However, I also made mention that culture in this game seems to be primarily divided based on region and less on races—there are exceptions with the few homogenous racial communities we see in this game (primarily Raen and Xaela), but most regions are made of different races, so they do not racially homogenize the gear. Instead they homogenize it based on the regions (i.e., Ul’dah, Limsa, Gridania, Ishgard, etc.). Lore-wise it might not even be possible to create racially homogenized gear outside of those few communities that are mostly homogenous. Which you have the Xaela with their own gear—but then again, said gear is also available to everyone via Bardam’s Mettle and the mid-tier SB crafting/gathering gear. The Raen use gear from one of the Little Ladies’ Day events prior to SB even releasing (I think it was the 2016 event).

This is also very true, the OF are mostly a cesspool of whining as it seems to have created a culture where people only come here to air grievances about something or troll. This does not mean that those feelings are the commonly held belief among the millions of players. So just cause you see people cheering for topics like this doesn't mean most players want it or even care about it.

While the OF has certainly degraded in quality, there are still valid suggestions and complaints present. And it is also the official platform that SE recommends players use (despite us knowing that they also browse the FFXIV subreddit). And even though the forums are the minority, it’s what the developers have to go on with regards to playerbase opinions. If those that don’t post don’t air their opinions (or non-opinions), well it’s a moot point. The developers don’t know. You and I don’t know. So how can we even take them into account? This is the feedback the developers see. It’s what they have to go on.

I can't personally say how many people care about XYZ but I do know that of all the FB groups and Discords and reddits and in game chats I'm a part of these kinda things are never bitched about. I've legit seen someone accuse someone in a group of modding because they had an Elezen with the Hempen top on ... that person had never seen an elezen wearing one. That's the last time I remember anyone even commenting on these underwear outside of the OF.

Again, what people talk about in private communities isn’t want the developers (or even myself) see. This is the platform they have. This is the feedback they see. Based on what I have seen here, the majority of the feedback is for unlocking the racial sets.

[reivaxe]

This means that the talismans are lore appropriate

Lets not play obtuse here. The Talisman is apart of their underwear and from their lore that outright states they wear this woven into their underwear, you legit said none of them had any cultural meaning or significance/ connection. Ya wrong. (Also, the fact that it's race and clan locked would imply that all hempen tops/ bottoms designs are customary for those who wear them. As in, by being race locked the game's saying "it's customary for these people in this culture to wear this under their outter clothing" aka implied lore ... cause not everyone is going to have descriptions of underwear in their lore but the game can show it. Yeah, ya know .. it can work that way. This can be the game's way of saying that these are lore-wise what your character would wear as w/e race cause it is their customary garments )

"B-B-But if you gave them DIFFERENT underwear they could still change it to have the talisman on it" so you want to divorce the elements behind their racial underwear that connect it directly to their culture just so everyone can have some version of BDSM gear and then make a version of EVERY other underwear that has a sizable wooden talisman in the center of the chest, woven into it?

That's silly.