FFXIV and SqEnix vs WoW and Blizzard - My Perspective

[SturmChurro]

Why are you guys even complaining about WoW? Has anyone stopped to think, maybe that game just isn't for them? Just as FFXIV is for us, we can't expect WoW to change their design philosophy for a tiny minority.

[Ayuhra]

Why are you guys even complaining about WoW? Has anyone stopped to think, maybe that game just isn't for them? Just as FFXIV is for us, we can't expect WoW to change their design philosophy for a tiny minority.

I complain about both because I love both and want to see both improve.

Final Fantasy XIV needs to be more flexible.

World of Warcraft needs to be less of an esport and more of a roleplaying game.

...Unfortunately my biggest gripes with FFXIV seem to all stem from the same issue: A pretty awful engine. I would LOVE to see what this team could pull off with a more robust and future proofed game engine.

[Jojoya]

Why are you guys even complaining about WoW? Has anyone stopped to think, maybe that game just isn't for them? Just as FFXIV is for us, we can't expect WoW to change their design philosophy for a tiny minority.

Except they did change their design philosophy to please a minority. Players asked them to reconsider. They chose to stick with their changes.

WoW was no longer the right game for the majority so the majority left.

[SturmChurro]

Except they did change their design philosophy to please a minority. Players asked them to reconsider. They chose to stick with their changes.

WoW was no longer the right game for the majority so the majority left.

They seem to be doing fine. The number one MMORPG out there. WoW just isn't for them. Simple as that.

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the raids greatly outweighs the number of players who might leave? Perhaps the company has metrics that some cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each raid, and grinding for gear?

[Vahlnir]

They seem to be doing fine. The number one MMORPG out there. WoW just isn't for them. Simple as that.

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the raids greatly outweighs the number of players who might leave? Perhaps the company has metrics that some cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each raid, and grinding for gear?

I'll try to put this in perspective.

At WoW's peak, Wrath of the Lich King, and what many consider WoW's "golden age", it had 12 million players actively subbed. Some may argue that Burning Crusade was the golden age, but I'm going off of numbers. This was when the game had a little bit of everything for everyone. That age ended in Cataclysm, the following expansion, when they put most of their focus on the "raid or die" community. It had ups and downs during its cycle, but for the most part it was still a decline, little bits at a time.

Then Mists of Pandaria came out. Personally, it was my favorite expansion, but not everyone felt that way at the time. Despite having a lot to do (perhaps too much) it continued its decline. Since then (many years later) people have come to realize just how good they had it.

Then...Warlords of Draenor hit. The hype alone got 10 million players to resub/continue subbing, since it was touted as "Burning Crusade 2.0". Within 6 months of its release, 5 million players had up and left. Why? Because aside from raiding, there was nothing for the average player to do. But at least the raiders got their raids, right?

Then they tried to remove flying from current content for the entire future of WoW. That did not help the bleeding. It got so bad that they stopped posting sub numbers. The number was around 3 million or so before they stopped counting. They reversed course after swift and severe backlash from the community, but opted to make people grind for flying instead. They also stopped developing WoD by that point and were focused on another expansion, Legion. Rough estimates around that period put the player base around 2 million and it only went lower. They also had Customer Service reps on standby to talk to people as they unsubbed. Ouch.

Legion was met with some criticism and a heck of a lot of skepticism. But, they finally decided to add a little something for everyone again. And even raiding/mythic dungeons were accessible! This was also the beginning of Mythic Plus, which I don't particularly care for, but to each their own. Not everyone was happy, but I'd wager a fair number of people were satisfied. In my opinion, it was a solid expansion aside from some time gating and RNG issues. I'm sure they still lost subs, but they couldn't have lost more than they did in WoD.

Enter Battle For Azeroth, the follow up to Legion. Guess what they did? They killed crafting, removed tier sets and put most of their focus on the raid or die community and locked many rewards behind multiple layers of RNG to pad out their subscription numbers. Oh, and they released it in a broken, buggy state, earning it the name "Beta For Azeroth". The story was a mess, Island Expeditions were boring and they put time gate after time gate into the mix because they knew there wasn't enough actual content there to tide people over. They also began running promotions not long after launch, attempting to lock 6 months worth of subscription money in advance while enticing players with a fancy mount. Red flag anyone? It was around the middle of BfA that I got a lengthy survey asking for my feedback. Boy did I give it to them.

Shadowlands...this is where my post ends, and my subscription ended. Basically, it felt like Battle For Azeroth but on steroids. So I left. Long story short...never spurn your casual player base. It comes back to haunt you. Just because it's number one, doesn't mean it's actually good. It just means there isn't a lot of actual competition. I got a lengthy survey from Blizzard in my email about 2 weeks after I unsubbed. They only send those out when the going gets tough. A lot of people got one of those. So...here I am. Only subbed to FF XIV. Why? Because they respect my time. I can actually play the game I, you know, paid for. WoW used to be for players like us. It used to be for just about everyone, really. And every time they take a step toward making it less casual friendly it hurts their wallets big time. Their "core audience" is pretty much all that remains. And that won't pay the keep the lights on forever.

[SturmChurro]

I'll try to put this in perspective.

All I have to do is refer you to my previous post, for a basic reply.

Despite you buying these expansions, it seems like the game wasn't for you then (BFA), and it looks like it still isn't for you now. I think they are doing quite well, especially in China. What's wrong with Blizzard catering to their base? That's exactly what game companies do.

Listening to a vocal minority probably wouldn't work out well for Blizzard. All these people seem to be pushing for WoW to be turned into an FFXIV clone, casualized. There are other games to play, like just sticking to FFXIV. it would be like removing a core feature of WoW. It's is a raid focused game first and foremost and it has always been. The story, and everything else, like casual content, are secondary.

[Liam_Harper]

Then Mists of Pandaria came out. Personally, it was my favorite expansion, but not everyone felt that way at the time. Despite having a lot to do (perhaps too much) it continued its decline. Since then (many years later) people have come to realize just how good they had it.

Mists was a great expansion. People ridiculed their whole "Kung-Fu Panda" thing and they took the risk, went for it and pulled it off. I only have respect for that. The biggest flaws in MoP were the huge amount of dailies on launch and the 18 month content drought, but it was something fresh and they kept subscriber numbers surprisingly stable all considered.
MoP introduced challenge mode dungeons, amazing raids, good class design, pet battles, challenging open world rares, Proving Grounds, Timeless Isle and so on. I loved Mists.

WoD was baffling. 18 months drought and one of the most incomplete expansions to date. All they had to do was tweak the flaws and polish what worked, but instead they scrapped everything that worked. No flying, open world rares near worthless, classes gutted, a month Apexis grind for rubbish gear, facebook mission tables that destroyed the economy, the removal of the MoP legendary questline and all associated story, a garrison that killed craft/gathering professions, the least number of dungeons/raids of any expansion, a whole patch for a Selfie camera, 2 entire capital cities and a lot of customization that never made it to the end product and so on.

Legion was good, but hindered by the fact they clung to bad remnants from WoD. The mission tables were there to stay, flying was still heavily gated, classes remained gutted, the grinds got far grindier, rng legendaries, rng titanforge. It was their last chance really and it went straight downhill from there without ever picking up. They were simply too stubborn to admit they got a lot of things wrong, lost touch of designing games with fun in mind and doubled down on time played metrics. It's really a shame when they were so close to getting the core of the game right in MoP. Honestly, if their current expansions were MoP standard but polished, I wouldn't be playing ff14 today.

[ItMe]

Honestly, if their current expansions were MoP standard but polished, I wouldn't be playing ff14 today.

Sorry it let you down, but for what it's worth I'm glad you're here.
I like talking with you

[Kamatsu]

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the raids greatly outweighs the number of players who might leave? Perhaps the company has metrics that some cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each raid, and grinding for gear?

Funny thing about that is back in 2010-2012 Blizzard dev's reveleaded what their internal metrics showed - only 6-7% of their active player base had ever stepped into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the 1st vanilla raid, only 1-2% had made it to the last raid, and less than 0.5% had completed it. So no, the # of players who stay for raids is NOT higher than any other playergroup.

Blizzard Dev's were actually pretty sour about the fact that so few people had experienced their raids - this is why they were making changes to WoW's raiding. Starting with the moving of vanilla's end-raid to WotLK's starter raid (while also making it easier), trying to make the initial raids easier, making starter gear for raiding easier to get, they then added in "Looking For Raid" was an even easier version of raids that offered decentish gear upgrades over crafted/quest gear... to the point that they now force players to do LFR to just get through the expansions story (to even get to the cut-off point where raiding finish's the expansions story... still have to do LFR raiding to move through zone stories).

So no, it's not that the metrics show that the player base looking for raids & raiding are high... it's because the WoW lead(s) are (or was the last time I was bothered to look/play WoW.. which was admittedly ~4 years ago) a hardcore raider... who had stated his main focus and desire was raids, raids, raids. So yeah, metrics and player-interest didn't/don't matter... as long as the dev's & dev head's want to focus of raiding.

[SturmChurro]

Funny thing about that is back in 2010-2012 Blizzard dev's reveleaded what their internal metrics showed - only 6-7% of their active player base had ever stepped into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the 1st vanilla raid, only 1-2% had made it to the last raid, and less than 0.5% had completed it. So no, the # of players who stay for raids is NOT higher than any other playergroup.

Blizzard Dev's were actually pretty sour about the fact that so few people had experienced their raids - this is why they were making changes to WoW's raiding. Starting with the moving of vanilla's end-raid to WotLK's starter raid (while also making it easier), trying to make the initial raids easier, making starter gear for raiding easier to get, they then added in "Looking For Raid" was an even easier version of raids that offered decentish gear upgrades over crafted/quest gear... to the point that they now force players to do LFR to just get through the expansions story (to even get to the cut-off point where raiding finish's the expansions story... still have to do LFR raiding to move through zone stories).

So no, it's not that the metrics show that the player base looking for raids & raiding are high... it's because the WoW lead(s) are (or was the last time I was bothered to look/play WoW.. which was admittedly ~4 years ago) a hardcore raider... who had stated his main focus and desire was raids, raids, raids. So yeah, metrics and player-interest didn't/don't matter... as long as the dev's & dev head's want to focus of raiding.

So Blizzard could listen to the vocal minority asking for WoW to be made casual for them, and thus reach out to people who are interested in that kind of content... but how many of their core / endgame-orientated players would they lose as a consequence? Read their comments and you'll see... they seem to want raids either completely removed for them (ie 100% optional) or gutted for everyone... Yes they are a small percentage of the MMO gaming community, that has in too many games received abnormally high dev attention for their numbers. Games have been diluted to cater to casuals as the years have gone by.