Why do people bother dodging aoe during trash pulls?

[Gemina]

This is simply not true. It's also not playing the game "correctly" either. If I can do 1000 DPS or 2000 DPS I will choose 2000 DPS even though I took an aoe or two to the face that nobody ever has to heal. This is exactly what it's like in Expert. In fact, I'd argue it's much more "correct" to stand in aoes if it means not dying (which you almost certainly won't) and doing the most damage because of it.

When it comes to laziness by the way, I advise you to look up a website I will not type out and check out your own performances. Being, more often than not the player with the lowest amount of buttons pressed per minute and poor uptime overall. Might have a thing or two to learn about productivity yourself

This is entirely erroneous. Bosses just love to attempt to hit players with avoidable AoEs and then follow up with an unavoidable raidwide to finish the players off who ignored or made a mistake during the mechanic; so a regular AoE that was originally non lethal, is actually what ultimately kills the player. An aware healer 'might' save you before the raidwide goes off, but that is a resource they would not have to use if you simply just stepped out of the AoE before the cast finishes. Learning and making a habit out of dodging AoEs only benefits you in the long run if you care at all about playing not only the game correctly, but also your chosen job.

One of the challenges to playing a DPS job is maximizing your uptime along with your damage. There are one of two things that you need to take into consideration here, and that is are you a caster, or do you have abilities that lock you in place. If you do not need to cast or do not have any abilities that lock you in place there is no reason for AoEs to cause downtime because of you dodging them. If you can't learn to do this in dungeons, then don't bother going into content where those AoEs are lethal. And it's not like you have to go into EX, savage, or ultimate for that to happen. Lethal or very hard hitting AoEs can be found in NM raids, alliance raids, and even some dungeons as well. You know, casual stuff?

Even in the case that you are a caster, all of them have methods that give them mobility while keeping the GCD from drifting. If you are not exercising these skills then no, you are not playing the game correctly. Those AoE markers are an indicator that damage is going to happen there, and everything about the game teaches you to not stand in them. There are occasions where it is acceptable to stand in an AoE, but nobody should be making a habit out of it.

I would also choose your words more carefully when making assumptions. When you question someone else's productivity, what actually happens is you put your own into the spotlight. Considering that you are advocating standing in AoEs because you are not good enough to avoid them while maximizing uptime, I already know that your DPS uptime is subpar to another player capable of dodging and damaging simultaneously.

[MPK]

This is entirely erroneous. Bosses just love to attempt to hit players with avoidable AoEs and then follow up with an unavoidable raidwide to finish the players off who ignored or made a mistake during the mechanic; so a regular AoE that was originally non lethal, is actually what ultimately kills the player. An aware healer 'might' save you before the raidwide goes off, but that is a resource they would not have to use if you simply just stepped out of the AoE before the cast finishes. Learning and making a habit out of dodging AoEs only benefits you in the long run if you care at all about playing not only the game correctly, but also your chosen job.

One of the challenges to playing a DPS job is maximizing your uptime along with your damage. There are one of two things that you need to take into consideration here, and that is are you a caster, or do you have abilities that lock you in place. If you do not need to cast or do not have any abilities that lock you in place there is no reason for AoEs to cause downtime because of you dodging them. If you can't learn to do this in dungeons, then don't bother going into content where those AoEs are lethal. And it's not like you have to go into EX, savage, or ultimate for that to happen. Lethal or very hard hitting AoEs can be found in NM raids, alliance raids, and even some dungeons as well. You know, casual stuff?

Even in the case that you are a caster, all of them have methods that give them mobility while keeping the GCD from drifting. If you are not exercising these skills then no, you are not playing the game correctly. Those AoE markers are an indicator that damage is going to happen there, and everything about the game teaches you to not stand in them. There are occasions where it is acceptable to stand in an AoE, but nobody should be making a habit out of it.

I would also choose your words more carefully when making assumptions. When you question someone else's productivity, what actually happens is you put your own into the spotlight. Considering that you are advocating standing in AoEs because you are not good enough to avoid them while maximizing uptime, I already know that your DPS uptime is subpar to another player capable of dodging and damaging simultaneously.

We're strictly talking about trash pulls in dungeons here. Besides, in real raids failing to dodge an aoe results in a damage down which is bad for your numbers.

Getting hit as a dps in any of our current expert dungeons will not negatively impact anyone at all. The healers don't even need to heal you because you would have your HP completely regenerated once you get to the next set of trash.

Besides, if the healer were any good they wouldn't be that busy with the tank, they would be spamming their aoe skills too and be using their OGCDs only to heal the tank (this includes raid wide ogcd heals such as assize, star, whispering dawn, and that fey blessing).

[Gemina]

We're strictly talking about trash pulls in dungeons here. Besides, in real raids failing to dodge an aoe results in a damage down which is bad for your numbers.

Getting hit as a dps in any of our current expert dungeons will not negatively impact anyone at all. The healers don't even need to heal you because you would have your HP completely regenerated once you get to the next set of trash.

Besides, if the healer were any good they wouldn't be that busy with the tank, they would be spamming their aoe skills too and be using their OGCDs only to heal the tank (this includes raid wide ogcd heals such as assize, star, whispering dawn, and that fey blessing).

It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

[MPK]

It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

Yes. Playing optimally is part of developing good habits. Knowing limits on what your class can do is very important. Playing safe and doing the bare minimum is not called developing good habits. The answer to "which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs?" is that I would take the DPS that knows how much damage the aoe would do and survive while doing optimal dps.

Do note that in real content taking an aoe will usually result in a damage down, but that's not the point. The point is knowing what you can get away with in a fight.

[Gemina]

Yes. Playing optimally is part of developing good habits. Knowing limits on what your class can do is very important. Playing safe and doing the bare minimum is not called developing good habits. The answer to "which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs?" is that I would take the DPS that knows how much damage the aoe would do and survive while doing optimal dps.

Do note that in real content taking an aoe will usually result in a damage down, but that's not the point. The point is knowing what you can get away with in a fight.

There is no way for you know that the DPS player who stands in bad knows what their limits are. They may simply not care to move out of AoEs and expect to get topped off from the healers. And where did, "the bare minimum" argument come from? It isn't about playing safe; it's about playing smart.

Again, there are exceptions. A player knowing which AoEs are acceptable to stand in to maintain uptime is an exception, not the rule. Players for the most part should be actively avoiding bad, and practice doing so while maintaining their rotations. Get good at doing it dungeons, so that way you're not holding your group back when yo DO go into harder content.

[MPK]

There is no way for you know that the DPS player who stands in bad knows what their limits are. They may simply not care to move out of AoEs and expect to get topped off from the healers. And where did, "the bare minimum" argument come from? It isn't about playing safe; it's about playing smart.

Again, there are exceptions. A player knowing which AoEs are acceptable to stand in to maintain uptime is an exception, not the rule. Players for the most part should be actively avoiding bad, and practice doing so while maintaining their rotations. Get good at doing it dungeons, so that way you're not holding your group back when yo DO go into harder content.

Sounds like to me that new players learning the game is the exception not regular players who already hit max level

[Gemina]

Sounds like to me that new players learning the game is the exception not regular players who already hit max level

Exceptions can always be made for new players who are learning. The same exceptions do not apply to max level players in an expert dungeon who should not only know how to play their jobs, but also avoid the telegraphs that have been taught to them that they are bad as early as day 1. You basically just pointed this out yourself.

[JRat]

Sounds like to me that new players learning the game is the exception not regular players who already hit max level

Uh okay.
Yay Im exceptional!