MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Reyketi]

Shape the presentation of the MSQ around this time with questing and cutscenes like still frames bridging the gap... where?

This can be applied anywhere, to any part of a quest series. It's literally done all the time in media, and it's really cool. There's this really cool site called Youtube where people already do this https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...u-KSnS1em-2ENK

The story gets even more barebones as each expansion rolls around

That's a baseless, and, well, false presupposition. Try thinking abstractly about solutions, instead of just assuming that the MSQ has to be 500 hours long.

but that wouldn't change the fact "abridged MSQ" is an awful experience.

Your opinion is irrelevant, as SE has already implemented an abridged version, and, given the fact that they intend to proceed with this manner of storytelling, will be implementing more revisions, of the such, as time goes on.

Also, I hope you like dev time being taken away from the next expansion as they now go back and figure out exactly what's safe to skip and what isn't.

Oof. That salt.

I really hope that you're conscious of the fact that SE has already condensed the MSQ, and leveling experience prior to my post.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[van_arn]

Sure. Let's do that, keeping in mind I told you to give examples.



Shape the presentation of the MSQ around this time with questing and cutscenes like still frames bridging the gap... where?

Do you lose the context of the Azim Steppe? Just say "and then Hien gathered an army."?

Do you just say "And then Alphy and the WoL were two good bois and helped all around Ishgard!"?

Or, hell, what about the whole Doma Vs. Gyr Albania issue we're having? Gyr already feels barebones as all get-out compared to Doma, so do you want to take even more screentime away from it?

What about the three fights with Zenos, do you cut one of them?

This is what I mean. You're not thinking about where to put these "gap bridgers" as you put it, and not only this, but with your proposed "time to cap" idea, then you're running into one more issue:

The story gets even more barebones as each expansion rolls around because now you have to retroactively think about what to skip in the previous expansion.

And sure, you can say



but that wouldn't change the fact "abridged MSQ" is an awful experience. I'd be more, far more, in favor of giving everyone a free skip then ever implementing something like this because it is patently obvious you did not, in any way, think through what this would actually look like.

Point to what you can voiceover without losing narrative impact. Tell the devs exactly what they can do to improve the game. Don't just throw an idea at the wall and expect them to figure it out for you.

Also, I hope you like dev time being taken away from the next expansion as they now go back and figure out exactly what's safe to skip and what isn't. I mean, it's easy right? Just do a voiceover with some stills, how hard can it be? All they need to do is recap the story. I'm sure /haurchefant hits just as hard when we get a hot cup of brew in the recap.

You realize the trailer for Heavensward says all a new player needs to get into the game at that point? All of ARR can be condensed into a little sip, a collapse, an escape, and standing at the threshold of frozen gates.

That’s all that’s needed for a new player to have a good time in heavenward and beyond.

Other things from arr are referenced elsewhere, but a full understanding of every reference isn’t necessary for a player to have a good time blasting dragons and overthrowing a theocracy.

Those that want to revisit ARR can use NG+.

[MsMisato]

Yes. As more expansions and updates arrive, the time it will take to actually get to current relevant content will only get longer and longer. Without them, yes, condensing the previous MSQ, or alleviating this issue in some way or other. I do not think, "just buy a skip" is a good alternative.

100+ hours is an extremely lengthy period of time, to actually play "content" with your friends. I don't care what some people's opinions are on the subject of endgame, or the story. As it stands, it is just too lengthy (even if you skip dialogue), It's a roadblock for new players trying to get into the game. This isn't some complete single-player experience where you can spend 30-50 hours, and you are done. This is an ongoing subscription based mmorpg. There has to be a better way of doing this.

Also. even single-player games notice a dropoff of players when the story is very lengthy, for that matter.

You do realize Yoshi has answered this question in an interview a couple months back. They are not cutting down/making it optional for free regarding the MSQ as it would be removing a core feature of the FF franchise. This is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost and it has always been about the story everything else like the 8 and 24 man raids are secondary. This is one of the reason why the trail was expanding out to HW and probably after 6.0 drops it will be expanded out to StB. So players don't spend a lot of money playing catch up and can do it at their leisure. One of the big reason it takes people so long is people flip flopping between jobs. If players truly want to miss out on the core, then there is the msq skip pot they can purchase as he pointed out.

[Barwara]

As someone who plays MMOS foremost for storytelling, and who dreads ever arriving "at the end", I don't think I would want the MSQ condensed. I've recently finished the MSQ of HW and I'm at the patch content before SB. I've been playing for about 3 months, and I feel like I'm going too fast, while trying my best to go slow in order to really enjoy the game. But the game (storywise) is so good it's hard for me to not be playing every single day. It's like a book I can't put down; I just have to know what happens next.

I see how ARR and post ARR can be perceived as grindy (personally I still enjoyed it) seeing as the expansions are shorter and much better story-wise, but I'm disappointed HW is already over, and that I ate through much of MSQ in a couple of days... and I feel like I will eat through the patch content quickly if I don't pace myself. So I agree with those that say that if you want to skip you might as well buy your way through if that's what you really want, but you should respect the game for what it is: story-driven! FFXIV is unique in that. It shouldn't try to be like other MMOS where you can max out without ever going through any story.

(About some MSQ quests being completely useless and fillers, I agree. Some of that can either be cut out and turned into sidequests, or just made more interesting. I won't even get started on how there's a lot of fetching and running back and forth, and I hope this improves as I move on in the game.. XD)

Another point, isn't disparity between levels and unlocked content present in every MMO game? Even if the MSQ was condescend, and it would be easier to access certain content, you will still find people with different schedules and availability who aren't able to play as often as others. They will fall behind in their levelling and gameplay. They will be behind their friends and they will have to catch up. I think such situations are unavoidable.

[SturmChurro]

You do realize Yoshi has answered this question in an interview a couple months back. They are not cutting down/making it optional for free regarding the MSQ as it would be removing a core feature of the FF franchise. This is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost and it has always been about the story everything else like the 8 and 24 man raids are secondary. This is one of the reason why the trail was expanding out to HW and probably after 6.0 drops it will be expanded out to StB. So players don't spend a lot of money playing catch up and can do it at their leisure. One of the big reason it takes people so long is people flip flopping between jobs. If players truly want to miss out on the core, then there is the msq skip pot they can purchase as he pointed out.

I have never once thought their stupid skips wouldn't lead to the current expansion, but I hope they realize they are losing players who don't want to spend centuries doing the MSQ to play with their friends (or just do more relevant content), or pay the 25 bucks or whatever ON TOP of what they may have paid for the game itself, and the expansion. Shortsighted, in my opinion. Definitely panders to a base though.

[Jojoya]

That is too long to expect a new player to sit through before they get to the "good part."

Except end game isn't the "good part". The good part is the journey, which is why so many players who rush through as they tunnel vision end game will go back to start over. They realize they had actually been skipping the good part.

End game is just filler waiting for the next segment of the good part to be released.

[Reyketi]

Except end game isn't the "good part".

Says who? You?

The good part is the journey

Please define this nebulous "journey" we're always patronized with.

will go back to start over. They realize they had actually been skipping the good part.

Nothing says "good" like having to shorten your leveling experience because it's that much of a barrier for new customers, and or people dislike it so much.

You do understand that you are in the minority, here? SE, and Blizzard have both reduced the time it takes to reach level cap, that means their customers aren't enjoying it, as much as you think they are.

End game is just filler waiting for the next segment of the good part to be released.

Says who? You?

What keeps players coming back? If this assertion were reflective of material reality, you'd expect the sub numbers to completely tank during the post leveling/MSQ "end game" content. They don't. The sub numbers drop if there isn't more "end game" content.

This isn't new information.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[MilkieTea]

Heyo, maybe it'd be best to hear from a new player, considering I'm noticing SO MANY people in here speaking for us. I'm not here for, nor do I claim to represent all new players (and neither should y'all, if I'm being honest; you don't). I love the story. I love the grindiness. My attention span is shot to hell (thanks to ADHD+Autism+ menthol i'll nest) so I blast through cutscenes IN THE MOMENT, but when I feel like I can better focus, I search for as many as I can on YouTube or I go through the Inn. Every little bit feels important to me, because it is MY journey. I don't want to feel like a spectator, I don't want the story taken away. I love Final Fantasy as a series, and this feels like a Final Fantasy game that I can play with others. There are people who are going through the same journey as I am, I've come across so many coincidentally doing the same exact questlines as me. I don't think it needs to be further condensed, because at this point it's just up to you how fast you play through it. Perhaps the questlines could be cleaned up, but the story itself is as fleshed out as it needs to be.

People move at different paces, and if someone wants to skip through everything to get to endgame because they don't want to play the "Final Fantasy" aspect of the game, and wish to play the "MMO" aspect of the game, that's perfectly fine and up to them! But there's a way to do that. It's in the cash shop. And if you'd like to do that for free, there's even a way to do that! (though it'd take about a week and a half to two weeks).

As both an aside and healthy reminder:
FFXIV isn't WOW. The point of the game isn't to get to the end as fast as possible because things may be time sensitive or if you mess some timing up youre screwed for weeks or months. The point of the game is the story and the ability is going to first and foremost be for players to focus on the story. I already feel pressured to skip through cutscenes in dungeons and trials because I know, in those 30-60 seconds, that I'm going to either be left behind or yelled at and nagged.

Also, can I just add that the tone of this thread has progressively gotten more and more hostile with every page? I've been reading along ever since page 8 and while initially there was some snark, as is normal for forums, it's gotten to the point where every other response is sarcastic, unproductive, and downright mean at some points. You guys aren't going to change opinions, some people like the story and others enjoy the endgame content, some people feel like the msq is the dullest thing in existence and some feel like it's the most amazing. There's no need for you guys to be sarcastic and hostile and overtly defensive about either position, because they're both valid opinions to be held. Remember that there's someone on the other side of the screen who is just as passionate about their opinion as you.

[van_arn]

Except end game isn't the "good part". The good part is the journey, which is why so many players who rush through as they tunnel vision end game will go back to start over. They realize they had actually been skipping the good part.

End game is just filler waiting for the next segment of the good part to be released.

The current expansion is "the good part." That's not endgame. Content balance in earlier eras is a pale shadow of what they were when they were current, and there's no way to experience that content as intended outside of perhaps faux hollows.

Min ilvl helps, but it doesn't fix the class changes or new jobs added the content wasn't designed for.

Perhaps if the earlier game weren't nerfed into oblivion you'd have a point, but that's not the case. While a player might enjoy Praetorium's cutscenes, the fights are trash in comparison to what they were originally. A scholar can now carry damage in Castrum with one button mashed now thanks to stat and job changes, for example.

Say what you'd like about cutscenes, but the fights are retired content until you reach Shadowbringers. That's fading fast, and it's a long road of dead content to even get there.

[Diego2112]

No way by Hel's Holiest of Bells am I reading all 15 pages of this, so forgive me if it's already been said. Made an alt to play through the reworked MSQ. It takes just under 24 hours of gameplay to get through all of ARR plus the 7AE patchquests to get to the start of Heavensward. What more do you want them to cut? ALL of ARR and 7AE? Even Heavensward doesn't take too terribly long.

That said, no point really debating story vs gameplay and which is better. There's two camps, there will always be two camps, and neither side will see eye to eye with the other no matter how much talking, debating, arguing, screaming, shouting, yelling, and/or shanking is done. I myself am here for the story first, everything else second. If I could grind it up and inject it straight into my brain, I would. But hey, you lot do you lot.

Again though, 24 hours from the time you ride into Ul'dah until the time you ride out of [redacted] and into [redacted]. I think it's truncated enough.