Consensus about lifting job glamour restrictions

[Duskane]

as much as i want MCH gear on GNB Job gear should stay exclusive to said job
and sure it would take some effort to rewrite some gear to all class but it doesn't have to be all in one go
easily could do ARR gear first HW+SB another expansion etc etc

[MsQi]

Fair? Healers and DPS can run around in those some bikinis and robes, so where's the inequality?

It's not so much a matter of inequality than consistency. When you consider the context, the main reason given for not lifting restrictions is job/role identity. SE literally demolishes any sense of these "identities" with their own design choices. Anyone can wear a bikini or nothing at all. Which Job identity are they preserving with that? They give us the usual dark robe for magic damage and light robe for healers which vaguely works for Black and White mage but has absolutely nothing to do with the other Jobs. By forcing a role identity they destroy Job identity, and it's not even a role identity. Ninja and Dragoon are not a role unto themselves, but they often have a set that is only for them while everyone else is grouped together. The designers do not give a crap about Job identity in the slightest and yet spew this out when people ask for lifted restrictions.

Creating jobless versions is inefficient. There is always the claim of stress on the servers. How can creating hundreds of unnecessary extra items be good for that?

EDIT:

I have to ask though, if you think restrictions should be lifted, why is AF the exception?

I personally think they should lift that too, assuming you have earned that gear. eg: you can use level 50 Bard gear if you have Bard at level 50. Which shouldn't be a problem, since I don't think you can obtain it any other way. However people consider this stuff "sacred".

More EDIT:

in games where a character is only one class the class is an important part of character identity. I can see keeping certain thing limited in those games. A paladin seeing a warrior in their special armor ruins things. But everyone can be every class/job in this game. The Warrior you see in Paladin armor is also paladin and earned the right to wear that. Not allowing it is like dividing the character.

[Gemina]

For the artifact armour, it's the one thing I personally see as a certain identity of a job. While every other piece of gear doesn't necessarily tell you which job that character is, artifact armour is something that you associate with one job and one job only. This special setup should stay like this.

This was the answer I thought you would give, and since you acknowledge this, then you should understand why they want to keep some restrictions because people don't want to see tanks in lighter clothes. If restrictions were lifted, I see no reason why AF should be an exception since I can make the exact same arguments you are about the other gear as far as lifting its restrictions. If restrictions could be lifted entirely, then identity goes out the window. If your arguments all of a sudden shift to that of preservation, then I would use that same perspective towards what little identity the game has left when it comes to its classes and jobs.

[RicaRuin]

This was the answer I thought you would give, and since you acknowledge this, then you should understand why they want to keep some restrictions because people don't want to see tanks in lighter clothes. If restrictions were lifted, I see no reason why AF should be an exception since I can make the exact same arguments you are about the other gear as far as lifting its restrictions. If restrictions could be lifted entirely, then identity goes out the window. If your arguments all of a sudden shift to that of preservation, then I would use that same perspective towards what little identity the game has left when it comes to its classes and jobs.

The thing - and what I hinted at before - is that your wish of preserving that and not wanting Tanks in light clothing would actually require them to make more restrictions, since Tanks can wear all sorts of light and little clothing already. To preserve the identity you see in Tanks, they should be restricted from those ilvl 1 Glamours.

See the paradox this whole discussion is?

[Gemina]

It's not so much a matter of inequality than consistency. When you consider the context, the main reason given for not lifting restrictions is job/role identity. When SE literally demolishes any sense of these "identities" with their own design choices. Anyone can wear a bikini or nothing at all. Which Job identity are they preserving with that? They give us the usual dark robe for magic damage and light robe for healers which vaguely works for Black ad White mage but has absolutely nothing to do with the other Jobs. By forcing a role identity they destroy Job identity, and it's not even a role identity. Ninja and Dragoon are not a role unto themselves, but they often have a set that is only for them while everyone else is grouped together. The designers do not give a crap about Job identity in the slightest and yet spew this out when people ask for lifted restrictions.

She didn't use consistency in her argument; she used fairness. You said it yourself, "Anyone can wear a bikini, or nothing at all." That seems pretty fair to me. It is also consistent. SE hasn't demolished anything. All of us still know what tanking, striking, aiming, casting, and healing sets look like. Furthermore, jobs have their own identities as well, which is how comments towards someone's glamours can be something like, "You look like a MNK." or when you look at something and think, "This would be perfect for my MCH!" Think about Derplander when he changes jobs during movie scenes. There is a lot that tells us what job he currently is: His weapon, his abilities, AND his gear. Identity helps us establish all of these without them being directly told to us.

On the contrary, the devs care very much about maintaining a certain identity. The very identity I just pointed out, and they understand that glamour options doesn't destroy this. This simply allows players to have some fun with their glamour choices, and fails as a reason to give themselves the technical nightmare task of what would be lifting the restrictions. These glamour options also give players the ability to create a look for their character more in line with other concepts of the same classes, or maintain a look they feel the devs have got away from.

What players fail to understand is that what actually destroys identity is allowing the free for all you're asking for. What they have allowed is what has caused the damage to the identity we speak of. When you mention that it has been destroyed, you seem to know exactly what the cause is, yet advocate for more meteors to come raining down to wipe out identity entirely. Which you basically state here...

I personally think they should lift that too, assuming you have earned that gear. eg: you can use level 50 Bard gear if you have Bard at level 50. Which shouldn't be a problem, since I don't think you can obtain it any other way. However people consider this stuff "sacred".

More EDIT:

in games where a character is only one class the class is an important part of character identity. I can see keeping certain thing limited in those games. A paladin seeing a warrior in their special armor ruins things. But everyone can be every class/job in this game. The Warrior you see in Paladin armor is also paladin and earned the right to wear that. Not allowing it is like dividing the character.

In a game where a character is only one class, then why does it matter what they wear? Nothing will change that character's class. This argument doesn't work because it's the armor itself that has the identity, not the character who is wearing it.

[GrizzlyTank]

as much as i want MCH gear on GNB Job gear should stay exclusive to said job
and sure it would take some effort to rewrite some gear to all class but it doesn't have to be all in one go
easily could do ARR gear first HW+SB another expansion etc etc

Job armors understandably, but when we are dealing with Tier sets such as High Allagan and Alliance sets where the only visual difference between tank and ranged is a cloak, then the restrictions are just redundant.

[GrizzlyTank]

Only in some situations, like writer's block situations or must get something done situations. Must write a song? Choosing a key, or a mode, or time signature, though it may be arbitrary it limits your options and might get you on a track of getting something done. But you always have the option of later expanding beyond that. When you have a particular vision for your project you have already limited your options and when those options aren't available the only added creativity is in pretending you hit the mark when you actually missed.

Closest example to creative limitation would be a fashion competition were there are limited tools/materials. In real life the artists have the ability to customize the tiniest detail even when limited, but in this game we are restricted to mix premade items for a handful of slots.

[Raikai]

Honestly, I'm up for it. Any kind of restriction loosening would be very welcome... There's always the argument of preserving "role identity" but truth be told, there's not even cohesion to begin with across most of the sets in the game. Heck, for example, the last Eden tier Healing set shared a model with... Striking. Regardless of people enjoying that or not (I for one, do), it makes zero sense because it's clearly a caster silhouette. And I'm not even bringing up the not small amount of "immersion-breaking" items.

If depended on me, I'd just brand, when it comes to Glamouring, everything either as just Disciple of War or Disciple of Magic.

The only item set that I kind of see a sense into keeping restricted, like the OP says, are the Job relic sets, because that's the only identity that still keeps up its consistency.

[lolicon09]

I think that items stored in the Glamour Dresser should have the option to become usable for any class. And, if a trade-off is necesary, then they could add a different type of Glamour Prism that, after using it to store a certain item in the dresser, turns said item into something wearable for all classes. Could be a Master recipe item.


The "role identity" argument probably made sense at the begining of ARR, where most gear actually used to fit the roles, but that doesn't happen anymore

[MsQi]

SE hasn't demolished anything.

If I am wearing a bikini what Job am I?