DPS stressors vs. Mitigation stressors

[Ultimatecalibur]

Positioning the boss correctly at any moment is part of what a tank should be able to do without having to be assisted

I agree. I don't like it but SE's design formula favors consistency for the dps over fun for the tanks. Fights with a fair amount of repositioning are enjoyable to tank but are a pain for melee dps and stationary casters.

You could actually see difference in tank skill based on how consistent they were with repositioning and if they came up with more optimal uptime spots without having to be told by the disgruntled melees. Even with the jank movement in XIV it was still possible to have at least some of that instead of what we get right now and I don't recall the fights exploding or being trivialized due to being "inconsistent" - you just wiped if you screwed up, which is how it should be.

If a unintended strat emerges that does not completely trivalize the fight or a mechanic for some reason ends up trickier than intended SE leaves the fight alone and then designs future fights to account for the problem.

If a mechanic being "impossible to deal with" was such an issue, then by that logic every major mechanic should auto-rez your whole party, as plenty wipes happen due to just not having enough people alive at the time to execute things. I'm pretty sure you can see how stupid that would be.

There is a difference between "this mechanic needs X players alive to complete" which is consistent through each attempt and "having the boss 1/2y north of the intended position or canted by 5 degrees to either side will cause the safespots use to dodge the floor AoEs to be smaller or in different spots" which can mean the strategy used to handle the mechanic is not consistent.

[Satarn]

There is a difference between "this mechanic needs X players alive to complete" which is consistent through each attempt and "having the boss 1/2y north of the intended position or canted by 5 degrees to either side will cause the safespots use to dodge the floor AoEs to be smaller or in different spots" which can mean the strategy used to handle the mechanic is not consistent.

Having the boss out of certain tolerable position leading to a wipe is just as consistent. Positioning the boss is a part of the mechanic, just like having everybody there execute their parts of it correctly. If the boss is not positioned, that's a tank's screw-up, just like somebody dying right before the mechanic is a screw-up on either said person(if they died to an avoidable oneshot) or the healers if they failed to keep them alive. You saying that one screw-up is different from the other is just completely arbitrary.

Wait, are you saying that SE wants us to always only use their one strat and if we don't they consider it a failure on their part? That's not only contradictory to what Yoshi P's been saying, but also makes no sense at all, considering every single fight has at least two strats for it - trying to prevent that would be plain asinine.
The things SE "lets slide but tries to prevent from happening again" aren't generally tied to boss positioning anyways - it's dumb crap like WAR soloing wagons in o5s, or all sorts of tank LB cheesing, so boss teleporting and getting locked in is hardly preventing that. Hell, the bosses aren't even always locked through the entire thing - you can totally have Shiva move between casts during LR because tank did something weird, so there's your "consistency".

[Ultimatecalibur]

Having the boss out of certain tolerable position leading to a wipe is just as consistent. Positioning the boss is a part of the mechanic, just like having everybody there execute their parts of it correctly. If the boss is not positioned, that's a tank's screw-up, just like somebody dying right before the mechanic is a screw-up on either said person(if they died to an avoidable oneshot) or the healers if they failed to keep them alive. You saying that one screw-up is different from the other is just completely arbitrary.

The difference is the precision needed for things to be consistent. FFXIV is not a game that works if you need to be bullet hell precise in your positioning to dodge attacks.

Wait, are you saying that SE wants us to always only use their one strat and if we don't they consider it a failure on their part? That's not only contradictory to what Yoshi P's been saying, but also makes no sense at all, considering every single fight has at least two strats for it - trying to prevent that would be plain asinine.

SE has intended strats for fights and does consider it a minor failure when dev oversight leads to players developing alternative strategies to handle mechanics. They just do not punish the playerbase for developing those strats by modifying the existing fights. This is unlike what other MMO dev teams have done in the past.

The things SE "lets slide but tries to prevent from happening again" aren't generally tied to boss positioning anyways - it's dumb crap like WAR soloing wagons in o5s, or all sorts of tank LB cheesing, so boss teleporting and getting locked in is hardly preventing that.

We figure out how to dodge dive bombs in T5 by making them dive out of the arena? Targeted Dive bombs in future fights originate from outside the arena so that we can't dodge them that way. Tanking a boss a the edge of the arena creates a larger or smaller safe area than intended (which happened a lot in ARR)? Future bosses recenter themselves regularly before and after major attacks.

A lot of things in the current design formula are that way to prevent several of the emergent strategies that appeared in earlier fights.

Hell, the bosses aren't even always locked through the entire thing - you can totally have Shiva move between casts during LR because tank did something weird, so there's your "consistency".

Which is fine in SE's opinion as long as the mechanic is starting from a consistent point and the intended strategy limits boss movement.