Opinions: Should tanks work for aggro?

[Seku]

I don’t really see any downside to using what we have seen SE already to accomplish the same goals in less buttons as it stands, as I don’t see SE removing or changing any current tank cooldowns. The primary reason for returning stance dancing is to give players more strategic decisions regarding threat, mitigation, and DPS. It accomplishes those goals without necessarily changing encounter design all that much or requiring more ‘unique’ button presses. However, we do need those types of encounters to actually exist first, but given our current toolkits, I don’t think it would accomplish much that just amping damage frequency wouldn’t accomplish as well. It’s not necessarily hard to implement as Lyte notes, but I don’t see SE doing it, and I’d expect that if they did they’d first add more buttons that can be used on a short CD first just to cover for mistakes they made. And given their lacklustre class design and reluctance to evolve their encounter design, I think Stance Dancing is simply the easier sell.

Stance dancing didn't give any strategic decision, there has never been any strategic decision in this game outside of party comp, BIS, and when to use a job's utility during fights to maximize damage. Stance dancing is mostly binary and always has been.

1. Does the tank have the correct gear to do enough DPS to keep a hate lead with support from the DPS using their tools correctly? (Y/N).
2. Does the tank know their rotation (Y/N)
3. Do(did) you have a ninja to to help the tank keep a hate lead? (Y/N).
4. Do the other DPS know where their hate shred button's are at? (Y/N).

If you answer yes to all of those, congrats, you no longer need to have your tank stance in most situations after your warrior builds hate.

Active mitigation at least allows the possibility for some actual strategic choices and gives the tank actual choices other than spamming 1-2-3 and then taking about 30 minutes to go and look up a guide to know when to best use their OGCD's. Random spike damage would also be welcomed rather than the current scripted spike damage.

[Gobio]

AGGRO is not something purely between you and the boss. However, if you can managed to translate 'work for aggro' into something purely between tanks and the boss and nobody else, if even possible, fine go ahead.

But if the result of 'work for aggro' ends up being a soft pvp battle between you and your party member, then hard no.

[Masked-dingus]

AGGRO is not something purely between you and the boss. However, if you can managed to translate 'work for aggro' into something purely between tanks and the boss and nobody else, if even possible, fine go ahead.

But if the result of 'work for aggro' ends up being a soft pvp battle between you and your party member, then hard no.

That is and should be one of the skill required for a tank actually, make sure you keep your aggro and you should be constantly monitoring enmities, that's part of the job... Getting the boss, placing the boss, KEEPING the boss, while doing mechanics correctly and on top of that, add a little DPS

Not the '' turn stance on, and press 1-2-3 while reading or watching youtube '' tanking we have atm

[Vahlnir]

That is and should be one of the skill required for a tank actually, make sure you keep your aggro and you should be constantly monitoring enmities, that's part of the job... Getting the boss, placing the boss, KEEPING the boss, while doing mechanics correctly and on top of that, add a little DPS

Not the '' turn stance on, and press 1-2-3 while reading or watching youtube '' tanking we have atm

I tanked before Shadowbringers, at least off and on. Definitely more so in the time leading up to it to prepare me for Gunbreaker. Personally I disagree with this mentality, mostly because very few tanks seemed capable of actually doing this. Now? There are still bad tanks, but one usually has to be trying to fail at tanking to actually fail. I'd say that the truly bad ones are but a small fraction of the overall tanking player base. Tanking is now less stressful, a lot less. I feel that things are just fine now, but I know what some will disagree with me. And that's okay.

[Masked-dingus]

I tanked before Shadowbringers, at least off and on. Definitely more so in the time leading up to it to prepare me for Gunbreaker. Personally I disagree with this mentality, mostly because very few tanks seemed capable of actually doing this. Now? There are still bad tanks, but one usually has to be trying to fail at tanking to actually fail. I'd say that the truly bad ones are but a small fraction of the overall tanking player base. Tanking is now less stressful, a lot less. I feel that things are just fine now, but I know what some will disagree with me. And that's okay.

So basically, you prefer when a content is made braindead that making player having to improve ?

[Vahlnir]

So basically, you prefer when a content is made braindead that making player having to improve ?

Never said that at all, but okay. Tanking still requires effort. Good tanking anyway. But now that the bar is lowered for entry I think it has been beneficial to everyone. Mastering tanking is still beyond some people. Heck, I still see so many that don't know how to handle a tank buster. Just because it has been made easier doesn't mean it's braindead or that it doesn't require a player to improve. It is not braindead. And players still need to improve if they plan to do anything more than their daily expert.

[shao32]

On my opinion lowering the skill ceiling has been a mistake, the role doesn't need really much effort to be optimiced even on savage and the room to improve is so small that it's has been really unrewarding a boring for me.

No, we didn't need the simplification, it didn't increased the playerbase skill at all, just excused bad players for being bad and support them, i don't see many dedicates tanks anymore in regular dutys, most leave or play DPS to have some kind of fun on roulettes, me included.
What SE should have been done it was keep the learning curve and spend resources on rework the hall of the noviced with mini dutys that teach you every job mechanic and training grounds that you can acces every time and have diferent desing depending of what role you get in to, in other words make a better tutorial ingame and probably make it mandatory for certain things and stop nerfing, removing stuff and fearing adding some ideas bcs they fear the playerbase wouln't handle it at all.

So for me the tanks should work for agro? my answer is yes, i wanted tank stances being usefull in the past not be painfully braindead.

[Satarn]

But now that the bar is lowered for entry I think it has been beneficial to everyone. Mastering tanking is still beyond some people. Heck, I still see so many that don't know how to handle a tank buster. Just because it has been made easier doesn't mean it's braindead or that it doesn't require a player to improve. It is not braindead. And players still need to improve if they plan to do anything more than their daily expert.

It's not better for "everyone" - it's just better for people who weren't really much into tanking in the first place. While yes, many people who were too afraid to tank before have actually tried it now that it's been made easier, at the same time plenty of veteran tanks have switched due to the role no longer providing the challenge they were looking for, making it utterly unengaging. The role is basically catering to non-tank players right now instead of its usual target demographic, which is pretty bonkers imo.
On top of that - as you said - even though it's braindead easy for a typical tank player now, these new people who weren't really tank material will still struggle with the basics no matter how simple they're made, so it ends up lowering the skill-level of the role as good ones just quit/switch and you're left with the baddies.

Tank role has always traditionally appealed to people who like being in control, taking responsibility and ideally having a carry potential. When you greatly diminish these aspects(like SHB has), then you fail to provide the engagment and class fantasy for these people. Now, it'd be okay if there was one or two tank jobs which were purposefully made easier to provide a more accessible option for beginners and people who just want to alt a tank to help with role balance, but you can't just strip the entire role of everything that made it appealing to its player niche in the first place.

[Vahlnir]

It's not better for "everyone" - it's just better for people who weren't really much into tanking in the first place. While yes, many people who were too afraid to tank before have actually tried it now that it's been made easier, at the same time plenty of veteran tanks have switched due to the role no longer providing the challenge they were looking for, making it utterly unengaging. The role is basically catering to non-tank players right now instead of its usual target demographic, which is pretty bonkers imo.
On top of that - as you said - even though it's braindead easy for a typical tank player now, these new people who weren't really tank material will still struggle with the basics no matter how simple they're made, so it ends up lowering the skill-level of the role as good ones just quit/switch and you're left with the baddies.

Tank role has always traditionally appealed to people who like being in control, taking responsibility and ideally having a carry potential. When you greatly diminish these aspects(like SHB has), then you fail to provide the engagment and class fantasy for these people. Now, it'd be okay if there was one or two tank jobs which were purposefully made easier to provide a more accessible option for beginners and people who just want to alt a tank to help with role balance, but you can't just strip the entire role of everything that made it appealing to its player niche in the first place.

We will probably just have to agree to disagree. I get it, some didn't like the change. I completely understand that and I understand the reasons why. I'm just not one of those people and my mind won't be changed. I actually did main tanking once upon a time, and I have tanked in this game periodically. If tanking were to be reverted to its prior state I would follow it. I've been waiting for a gunblade job for a long, long time. Nothing would part me from it. But I am happy with the current state of things. You are not, as are some others. Again, that is okay. We just simply won't agree.

[Masked-dingus]

Tanking still requires effort. Good tanking anyway. .

Hinestly, no, and that is my first issue with the actual state of tanking