Auto-attack

[Alcide]

So now we have to play Dance Dance Revolution on the keyboard or gamepad (especially gamepad).

I really wander why you keep saying this when I've already showed that it's just you playing the wrong way.

[ChiefCurrahee]

I really wander why you keep saying this when I've already showed that it's just you playing the wrong way.

Tell me again how I'm supposed to select skills again? 1:1 on a keyboard 2+:1 on a gamepad.

Oh i've set up my action bar wrong, so anything thats not in the first/last 3 slots in bars 1 2 and 3 become null and void?
Create macros for the things that are just too far away to reach with a gamepad?

SO how am i playing wrong when clearly you're doing it right?

Look DDR plays like this:
up down left right left right down down up right left down

FFXIV plays like this (keyboard):
1 1 2 3 up 3 2 1 down 2 3 down 1 2 3 up 1 2 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)
or like this (gamepad):
1 1 right 2 right 3 up 3 left 2 left 1 down right 2 right 3 down left left 1 right 2 right 3 up left left 1 right 2 right 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)

Am i not supposed to press buttons for attacks? What happens when I run low on TP after i use 2 or 3 skills? press the button for my TP building attacks? No? What am I doing wrong?

How about we ditch the Auto attack idea.

ok?

Now check this out!

Get rid of TP! Following me? Get rid of TP and allow you to use any attack you want at any time. As long as you have the stamina! I'm gonna open spam "Doom Spike II" till my fingers bleed!

The fact is you NEED TP to use other attacks. To build TP you have to use one of your basic attacks (when I say basic I mean the ones used to build TP) Be it light thrust, heavy thrust or full thrust, they basically only exist to build TP, yes they have other uses like bind or AOE attached to them, but they are TP building attacks.

So, please tell me how i'm supposed to play without relying on those type of attacks to use my other skills, and then tell me how i'm not supposed to navigate the action bar to get to those skills?

[Alcide]

Tell me again how I'm supposed to select skills again? 1:1 on a keyboard 2+:1 on a gamepad.

Oh i've set up my action bar wrong, so anything thats not in the first/last 3 slots in bars 1 2 and 3 become null and void?
Create macros for the things that are just too far away to reach with a gamepad?

SO how am i playing wrong when clearly you're doing it right?

Look DDR plays like this:
up down left right left right down down up right left down

FFXIV plays like this (keyboard):
1 1 2 3 up 3 2 1 down 2 3 down 1 2 3 up 1 2 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)
or like this (gamepad):
1 1 right 2 right 3 up 3 left 2 left 1 down right 2 right 3 down left left 1 right 2 right 3 up left left 1 right 2 right 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)

Am i not supposed to press buttons for attacks? What happens when I run low on TP after i use 2 or 3 skills? press the button for my TP building attacks? No? What am I doing wrong?

How about we ditch the Auto attack idea.

ok?

Now check this out!

Get rid of TP! Following me? Get rid of TP and allow you to use any attack you want at any time. As long as you have the stamina! I'm gonna open spam "Doom Spike II" till my fingers bleed!

The fact is you NEED TP to use other attacks. To build TP you have to use one of your basic attacks (when I say basic I mean the ones used to build TP) Be it light thrust, heavy thrust or full thrust, they basically only exist to build TP, yes they have other uses like bind or AOE attached to them, but they are TP building attacks.

So, please tell me how i'm supposed to play without relying on those type of attacks to use my other skills, and then tell me how i'm not supposed to navigate the action bar to get to those skills?

Ok, and finally here comes the time when I ask:

"What's your highest rank??"

It seems you don't even know the skills you can get ingame!
Invigorate II: you gain TP doing nothing, it's a regen.
Hawk's Eye + Pierce if you have enough enemies: almost full TP with 1 attack (it can be 1 macro)
Multyshot + Hawk's Eye + Light Shot: Full TP with 1 attack (it can be 1 macro)
Syphon TP: you can drain at least 700 TP

And this is only for the three classes I play, maybe there are even more tactics.
You don't need to get rid of TP to spam WS, I already do it, I use far more WS/abilities then normal attacks, because it takes a few seconds to fill the TP bar and that's why I can't seem to understand why you guys want an auto-attack so badly, what the hell do you need all those normal attacks for??


Now, since you can't remember our last conversation:

My action bar (wich we took as example)

Invigorate II
Full thrust - WS - WS - WS - Keen Flurry - Ferocity II - Hawk's Eye - Speed Surge
Comrade in Arms II
(I put the buffs on the first bar only to check their CD, I always do them in 2 different macros)

What you think is the right pattern:

Invigorate II <down> Full Thrust Full Thrust Full Thrust > WS < Full Thrust > > WS > WS < < < Full Thrust < < Hawk's Eye < Ferocity II < < WS < < Full Thrust > WS.
14 actions, 31 button presses.

How you think it would be with auto-attack (same actions):

Invigorate II <down> (auto attack | auto attack | auto attack) WS (auto attack) > > WS > WS (auto attack) > > > Hawke's eye < Ferocity II < < WS (auto attack) < WS
14 actions, 19 button presses

My pattern:

fisrt buff's macro 2x full thrust; start br with full thrust; second buff's macro > WS > WS < < full thrust START AGAIN

Invigorate and Speed Surge on the first macro, all the other buffs on the second.

11 actions, 12 button presses.

Is it me or you would still move to much even with an auto-attack feature? o.O so maybe the problem is not the game...

And by the way you don't create macro coz a skill is too far away, you do it coz it's stupid to press 3 different buttons (5 with gamepad) when you know you're always gonna use those skills toghether o.O

[ChiefCurrahee]

Ok, and finally here comes the time when I ask:

"What's your highest rank??"

It seems you don't even know the skills you can get ingame!
Invigorate II: you gain TP doing nothing, it's a regen.
Hawk's Eye + Pierce if you have enough enemies: almost full TP with 1 attack (it can be 1 macro)
Multyshot + Hawk's Eye + Light Shot: Full TP with 1 attack (it can be 1 macro)
Syphon TP: you can drain at least 700 TP

And this is only for the three classes I play, maybe there are even more tactics.
You don't need to get rid of TP to spam WS, I already do it, I use far more WS/abilities then normal attacks, because it takes a few seconds to fill the TP bar and that's why I can't seem to understand why you guys want an auto-attack so badly, what the hell do you need all those normal attacks for??


Now, since you can't remember our last conversation:

My action bar (wich we took as example)


What you think is the right pattern:


How you think it would be with auto-attack (same actions):


My pattern:


Is it me or you would still move to much even with an auto-attack feature? o.O so maybe the problem is not the game...

And by the way you don't create macro coz a skill is too far away, you do it coz it's stupid to press 3 different buttons (5 with gamepad) when you know you're always gonna use those skills toghether o.O

Its about time someone came up with a valid reason and example on how the current system can work in one of these many threads.

So what about the other 20 available skill slots? reactive abilities, situational abilites/skills? The system still remains too busy.

[Alcide]

Its about time someone came up with a valid reason and example on how the current system can work in one of these many threads.

So what about the other 20 available skill slots? reactive abilities, situational abilites/skills? The system still remains too busy.

This was my personal pattern that I used when ranking up as lancer, but i often change some skills according to the wituation, but the point was that if you want to avoid moving too much you can do it; my archer pattern is totally different, but still studied to avoid unnecessary movements. Sometimes i might do a few more moves (in exemple I didn't mention when I use Comrade in Arms) but the average pattern is always the same.

About the atcion slots left and all the other skills, honestly I think that the fact that someone can equip almost all of his skills is something that should be addressed too, you never use them all in the same fight and you should spend more time thinking on how to set your build, but that's another problem.

[Naqaj]

Tell me again how I'm supposed to select skills again? 1:1 on a keyboard 2+:1 on a gamepad.

Oh i've set up my action bar wrong, so anything thats not in the first/last 3 slots in bars 1 2 and 3 become null and void?
Create macros for the things that are just too far away to reach with a gamepad?

SO how am i playing wrong when clearly you're doing it right?

Look DDR plays like this:
up down left right left right down down up right left down

FFXIV plays like this (keyboard):
1 1 2 3 up 3 2 1 down 2 3 down 1 2 3 up 1 2 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)
or like this (gamepad):
1 1 right 2 right 3 up 3 left 2 left 1 down right 2 right 3 down left left 1 right 2 right 3 up left left 1 right 2 right 3 (changing rows all skills in first 3 slots)

Am i not supposed to press buttons for attacks? What happens when I run low on TP after i use 2 or 3 skills? press the button for my TP building attacks? No? What am I doing wrong?

You're not doing anything wrong. Have you considered the problem might actually be the UI and not the combat itself? Acessing 30 skills by scrolling up and down some bars is a terrible solution for gamepad users, and leads to all the problems you're describing.
There's a nice thread about this in the UI section, we'd love to hear from you.
edit: scratch that, you're the one who started it -_-°

Question for those Against Auto Attack:

MMO needs communication & cooperation with other humans that needs language either writen or spoken. Currently we cant type effectively because we have to be constantly pressing buttons to attack. Also the UI is pretty much $hit for chatting. How will people communicate in battle? Just dont communicate? SE adds Voice Chat system? Create a Gambit System like FFXII? Slow the combat down like it was in Alpha?

Most of this coordination happens before the fight. In a fight, there's very little need for long words. Anything that happens is communicated by visual cues, or by a good UI. The number of valid choices you as a player can make is very limited in any given situation. If I play a healer, I don't need someone to tell me to heal the tank, I see his HP bar for that, and I see when the mob does his "I'm gonna hurt you bad" animation so I know to frontload a big heal.
If someone wants to start a BR, i need my UI to tell me, not someone spamming BRBRBRBRBR in chat.

If the situation is so unexpected or desperate that you really REALLY must talk to your group, than having your auto-attack deliver 2 puny blows whily you type certainly won't make much of a difference.
Also, having a more responsive chat window wouldn't hurt in that situation either.