Auto-attack

[Alcide]

I see a lot of people claiming that auto-attack will take something away from the game.. but they don't say what that something is. There is next to zero strategy in continually activating a basic attack, so wouldn't it be better if that time was spent doing something else? Whether it be communicating with your party members or using your other abilities, it doesn't really matter.

We did, the fact that we have 1000000 threads about auto attack isn't helping though.
If I can find the posts I'll quote them here, but the last time I wrote my strategies showing how you don't have to spam at all and that an auto-attack feature would ruin them the only answer I got was "I don't care about your achievemnts or the way you want to play" so I don't think it's gonna help.

By the way I guess EVERY archer can say that an auto attack feature would totally ruin their gameplay; as an archer you spend most of the time buffing yourself with abilities that last for only one hit, then you do a normal attack and your TP bar is already full, so for them auto attack is not just useless, but would totally ruin their strategies and make their gameplay a lot worse. And this is just an example about one class.

[TheOneAndOnlyStogie]

Voice chat will not be a viable alternative to text chat in the average party..

-Language Barriers (yay for auto-translate)

-Pick-up groups

-PS3 players ~ SE will NOT develop an in-game voice chat system, and they already made that point clear, for reasons of development cost as well as harassment control. Furthermore, as far as I know there is no voice chat system for the PS3 that can interface with the PC yet.

Using ventrilo with your guild is one thing. But making assertions that everyone should be using voice chat all of the time is silly. Especially when it comes to FFXIV's unique community.

In any case, that isn't a very important issue when it comes to the idea of auto-attack. I see a lot of people claiming that auto-attack will take something away from the game.. but they don't say what that something is. There is next to zero strategy in continually activating a basic attack, so wouldn't it be better if that time was spent doing something else? Whether it be communicating with your party members or using your other abilities, it doesn't really matter.

I'd like to point out that if I didn't have to manually perform my basic attacks, I would be able to use my other abilities much more efficiently. And there wouldn't really be any down time - especially at higher level when you have two hotbars full of skills. While my TP is generating, I would be using all sorts of things that don't require TP.

The implementation of any sort of auto-attack obviously isn't something that should be taken lightly, as it will likely require many other alterations to the current battle system. But facing facts.. the majority of players believe that FFXIV's battle system is a step backwards from the FFXI battle system. It needs to be changed.

THANK YOU!!
Cookie+3 for you.

[Arcell]

Archer would be the one exception where auto-attack would be a bad thing which is why I'd suggest they put an option in to toggle it.

[Grit]

You can already use auto translate with the current system because it is so efficient. he<tab>enter. nic<tab>enter. I<tab>enter.

That is an argument.. how?

They already made it clear that jumping is not coming. Then Tanaka got kicked out of the house. Whatever they said pre-xmas 2010 is irrelevant.

I vaguely remember Yoshi-P mentioning voice chat as well, but I can't be certain. In any case, an integrated voice chat system is not going to happen. And I'm content with that knowledge.

Only if you want to talk so much. What is silly though, is that because a minority of players does not, for some reason or the other, want to use a voice chat the gameplay should be automated and resources should be used just for the sake of these pretty little unique snowflakes.

For the record, people who don't use voice chat are in fact the majority in most MMOs. And with FFXIV being cross-region and cross-platform.. they will always be the majority.. Even if the game DID have an integrated voice chat system. You can say things like that all you want, but that doesn't make it true. This isn't Halo.

I see a lot of people claiming that you can do "something else" instead of actually playing the game, and they're all excuses- because a game should never encourage you to "not play the game". N e v e r. It doesn't really matter what it is that you're doing instead of playing. What matters is that you're not playing the game and the game encourages you to do so.

Did you even read my post? Did you even play FFXIV? Even with auto-attack, you would never be standing there doing nothing.

And I'd like to point out that you're pretty horrible at playing vidya games, and I don't want the game to be automated because you can't keep up. As if XIII wasn't already enough.

Seriously... if you still think that auto-attack would be "automating gameplay" then you'll never be persuaded otherwise. But at least describe your thought process without making personal attacks.

[ChiefCurrahee]

By the way I guess EVERY archer can say that an auto attack feature would totally ruin their gameplay; as an archer you spend most of the time buffing yourself with abilities that last for only one hit, then you do a normal attack and your TP bar is already full, so for them auto attack is not just useless, but would totally ruin their strategies and make their gameplay a lot worse. And this is just an example about one class.

Have you tried to use some forethought about how a AA toggle on/off would solve this problem for an archer, or even used a little critical thinking about how skills can be changed so the buffs only effect "next skill used" instead of "next attack" ?

[Betelgeuzah]

That is an argument.. how?

Using auto translate isn't a problem now. It can easily coexist with voice chat.

For the record, people who don't use voice chat are in fact the majority in most MMOs.

And for the record, people who don't want to sacrifice any amount of gameplay involvement for the sake of socializing during the battle are in the majority as well, oddly! Those who want can use voice chat or ~deal with it~.

Did you even read my post?

Yes. You said they could do "something else" (and listed chatting as one option, a good example of not playing the game) while criticizing the opposite side of the argument for not specifying what they mean (this made me giggle, indeed it did). It has been said several times in threads such as this that you can do everything not related to the game at all while waiting for the TP to fill.

Every activity in-game that you could do with auto-attack, you can already do. The only alternatives are activities that have you not play the game or simply fiddle your thumbs, and the game would encourage you to do so. That is never a good solution. Like I said.

Seriously... if you still think that auto-attack would be "automating gameplay"

The game initiates the basic attacks for you. Regardless how much you try to undervalue the significance of this change, it automates the gameplay. And how much, that's not the issue. The simple fact that it does is the issue.

[Alcide]

Have you tried to use some forethought about how a AA toggle on/off would solve this problem for an archer, or even used a little critical thinking about how skills can be changed so the buffs only effect "next skill used" instead of "next attack" ?

Have you ever tried to play as archer and thought about how great their gameplay already is?
I really think it's awsome as it is, just because it's pretty slow, you're staying far from the enemy, spending most of your time buffing yourself to gain a lot of TP with a single action and then you do a massive damage with a single shot; this whole concept can't be applied with an auto attack feature.

Also, multishot/trifurcate + raging strike + hawks eye + any WS = definitely OP


BTW as I already said in almost every auto-attack thread (gosh can we stop opening a new one every two days and just keep writing everything on the same thread?) a toggle on/off feature would be ok since you can actually feel the lack of an auto attack feature for the first 20 ranks when you don't have a full arsenal of skills, but i really doubt that someone would still be using it after that time.

[Alcide]

The game initiates the basic attacks for you. Regardless how much you try to undervalue the significance of this change, it automates the gameplay. And how much, that's not the issue. The simple fact that it does is the issue.

He's right, for any other MMO I would go against him, but this is not the case:
If you take Aion, WoW or FF11 as exemple the damage dealt by the auto attack is really small, you have to use other skills to be useful to the party at all. In FF14 normal attacks do A LOT of damage, actually you can grind all the way to rank 50 using just normal attacks (if you always play in parties) so in this case an auto attack feature is basically killing the mob for you.

They can address it by drastically lowering the damage dealt by the normal attacks, but then again an auto-attack feature would be useless because you'll have do a lot more of WS even doing the normal attack manually, wich would be used just to gain TP.

And here's the main point: in FF14, unlike 11 were it was pretty slow and automated, gaining TP is a huge part of the gameplay, an auto attack feature would get rid of it.

[ESAR]

The problem is that we cannot chat with people and that we have to constantly mash buttons because it is hard to tell if the action has been triggered.

An extended battle queue would fix both these problems.

Everyone keeps saying that basic attack are useless but they are not, each class gets two basic attack and each secondary has a unique and strategic purpose.

It's not the basic attacks that are ruining battle, it's the fact that we have to build TP to use weaponskills.

Rather then building TP to use weaponskills, You should be able to execute them whenever.

Since TP is out, we can use low cost (stamina) basic attacks to build power for weaponskills.

The longer your string of attacks (before stamina depletes and you are unable to attack.)

This would add another lay to battle, and make battle much smoother to perform.

If however everyone feels the need for auto-attack, with the ideas I've just presented you can set whole strings of commands to be executed in a macro. This would allow you to chat, talk strategy, w/e.

This game was not meant for an auto-attack. If they implement one they will ruin the game.

If you do "require" an auto-attack, there are ways they could do it without ruining battle. But they cannot add a traditional auto-attack without it having a very negative effect on battle.

Everyone thought battle in alpha was slow for good reason, it resembled the wait times of a traditional auto-attack. No one wanted it then, no one really wants it now. Everyone just thinks they do because of these apparent problems, they are fixable, but without the need for an auto-attack.

[Grit]

Having multiple threads on the same topic serves it's purpose in allowing people to debate specific points. One thread with thousands of posters means that people's thoughts get passed over too often.

He's right, for any other MMO I would go against him, but this is not the case:
If you take Aion, WoW or FF11 as exemple the damage dealt by the auto attack is really small, you have to use other skills to be useful to the party at all. In FF14 normal attacks do A LOT of damage, actually you can grind all the way to rank 50 using just normal attacks (if you always play in parties) so in this case an auto attack feature is basically killing the mob for you.

They can address it by drastically lowering the damage dealt by the normal attacks, but then again an auto-attack feature would be useless because you'll have do a lot more of WS even doing the normal attack manually, wich would be used just to gain TP.

And here's the main point: in FF14, unlike 11 were it was pretty slow and automated, gaining TP is a huge part of the gameplay, an auto attack feature would get rid of it.

Yay, thank you for posting your arguments in this thread.

You are completely right. The simple act of "adding" an auto-attack system could completely destroy the basic battle mechanics. And that's why auto-attack isn't something to be taken lightly... all sorts of alterations to the battle system would be required to make that sort of change into something people will enjoy.

Hopefully SE recognizes this, and their version of auto-attack would compensate properly for the mechanics already in place.. making the battle experience more strategic in the long-run.

It's important to remember that we aren't completely tied down to the same auto-attack mechanics that other games have been. We could even be allowed to toggle the speed at which our auto-attacks take place.. faster attacks yielding less TP. (That's just a random idea)

Or here's another one - choosing the order in which our different basic attacks take place.

Heavy Slash - Light Slash - Light Stab - Light Stab - Heavy Slash for example.